Slider Testing

Discussion in 'The Longest Yard' started by Kidofcrash23, Sep 20, 2013.

  1. Kidofcrash23

    Kidofcrash23 Walk On

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    So I did some slider testing tonight since the KC vs Philly game was boring as fuck. Anyway, i wanted to test both the pass defense and run defense.

    So to set up, i chose one offensive play and one zone and man defensive play to test pass defense. The sliders i changed were only reaction time and pass defense. My goal was to have offense run 20 plays, but the cpu attempt a pass. So if they get sacked or scramble, doesnt count towards my tally, only plays they actually attemped a pass that got to the WR.

    So i test curl routes only to keep things simple and that route is hard to stop. First defense i chose a off man (cb plays deep) cover 1 and a cover 3 zone

    Defense - Raiders
    Offense - 49ers

    Nickel Man Coverage Cover 1

    25 reaction time (default on all madden practice mode) + 0 Pass Defense

    Results:

    Competions = 20
    Incompletions = 0

    Conclusion = pass defense sucks on this one

    100 reaction time + 0 Pass Defense

    Results:

    Competions = 10
    Incompletions = 10

    Conclusion = Even, reaction time seems to improve pass defense

    25 reaction time + 100 Pass Defense

    Results:

    Competions = 10
    Incompletions = 10

    Conclusion = Same result as 100 reaction time hmmmmm

    100 reaction time + 100 Pass Defense

    Results:

    Competions = 17
    Incompletions = 3

    Conclusion = Now this one looks odd right? 100 pass defense and 100 reaction time should be mostly incompletes correct? Well in this test, they completed 17 passes out of 20. Now it isn't as clear as you think. The reason why they completed more is because on this settings, kaepernick CPU bullet pass every single pass so it got to the WR quicker, but the DB still was able to tackle. The other three settings kaepernick would not bullet the ball nor woudl he float it, it was a pretty normal pass. CPU adjusted by doing bullets to compensate for the higher pass defensive ratings which is why there was a higher completion rate

    =================================================================='
    Now to Zone

    Nickel Cover 3

    25 reaction time (default on all madden practice mode) + 0 Pass Defense

    Results:

    Competions = 10
    Incompletions = 10

    Conclusion = thought this was be 20-0 completion as well, but it was split.

    100 reaction time + 0 Pass Defense

    Results:

    Competions = 8
    Incompletions = 12

    Conclusion = Similar result to above, curl just hard to stop using zone.

    25 reaction time + 100 Pass Defense

    Results:

    Competions = 4
    Incompletions = 16

    Conclusion = The DB played the curl very good, but Kaepernick did not bullet the ball. He threw it normal.

    100 reaction time + 100 Pass Defense

    Results:

    Competions = 10
    Incompletions = 10

    Conclusion: This is a split as well so four settings out of the 8 settings were 10-10 splits, so what does that mean? Is performance pre-programmed to equal out? Maybe? Maybe not?

    Final Conclusion:

    Well this is a very simple test with a lot of variable ignored. I tried to keep it as simple as possible picking the same offensive play and defense play throughout and only changing the Pass Defense and Pass reaction settings. I think the test if accurate shows that the higher the rating the better the pass defense. This may not mean much since this games defense sucks, especially with no ability to dive tackle. Right now we are set at 25 pass defense, that probably should be bumped up IMO.

    I am assuming sliders work user vs user in CFM. Which i believe it does.
     
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  2. Kidofcrash23

    Kidofcrash23 Walk On

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    Onto the Run defense test

    So i think the run defense is really soft and frustrating to see WRs pancake CBs all the time. So i decided to test the tackle slider. So i used the same teams, niners and raiders and set the tackle to 0 and 100. I picked one play, strong set I - Stretch against both man under 4-3 stack and cover 2 sink 4-3 stack. I only ran 10 plays each and i considered a successful play 10 yards or more, anything less is marked as unsuccessful

    Here are the results:

    4-3 Stack 2 Man Under

    Results

    Successful = 7 (4 TDs for Gore)
    Unsuccessful = 3

    4-3 Stack Cover 2 sink

    Results

    Successful = 1
    Unsuccessful = 9 (4 tackle for losses)

    Conclusion: Pretty obvious, higher tackle setting the better the pursuit angle and block shed especially on the outside with the WR. It was clear in my eyes that LBs did not warp into a blocker, they were able to pursue the ball carrier or shed blocks. I think we are set at 58 on tackle, i think it should be increased IMO. I just wonder if the tackle setting which is under run defense translates into better pursuit when trying to tackle a WR in the open field and i wonder if it helps the horrid kick coverage.

    Thoughts? I also think kick power should be increased, if you watch nfl games, most kicks are out of the endzone. That rarely happens in games unless there is a ton of wind. This helps with reducing the amount of huge kick offs.

    Anyway, thought these were interesting results.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2013
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  3. HotRod

    HotRod You ain't bout dat life!

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    Yeah I've been talking to Simms regarding the kickoff power. I support that change. We can try to increase tackle to see if that makes a difference. Overall I think the rushing numbers have been pretty tame.
     
  4. Kidofcrash23

    Kidofcrash23 Walk On

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    Rushing seems to be ok, but it is the kick coverage and the open field stuff seems its is usually one on one all the time and the defensive guy is at a disadvantage everytime. So hopefully less big plays in passing.
     
  5. Mogriffjr

    Mogriffjr Walk On

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    I think run defense is pretty fine actually but i'll support anything to help with the pass defense as well.
     
  6. LSUTRUTH

    LSUTRUTH The one and only

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    Running isn't hard. It's just much easier to pass. So the issue we have is people throwing it 45 times a game and rushing it half the time. Really it comes down to play calling will tame some numbers. The worst run pass ratio should be 60/40 at absolute worst. I bet there are teams close to 70/30.
     
  7. Kidofcrash23

    Kidofcrash23 Walk On

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    Going through the 1st 3 weeks of games real quick. Of the 48 games played (i think my math is right), only 6 times a qb threw over 40 times. Most were in the high 20s or low 30s which is reasonable. The teams that had higher attempts usually was the losing team.

    The issue isn't people throwing 45 times or play calling. The issue is the yards per completion and the amount of YAC a receiver easily can get after the catch due to horrid defensive AI. Need to find a balance in sliders to improve pass defense coverage, but also defenders pursuing the ball which i think the tackling slider can improve.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2013
  8. Matrix Monkey

    Matrix Monkey Walk On

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    I'm struggling to run the ball, especially with Sproles. But if you're right and upping it will help guys in the open field pass gm than I support it, hah.
     
  9. charter04

    charter04 Walk On

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    There are a couple of things you testing confirms. The sliders work for one thing. 65-75 pass reaction combined with 50 pass coverage seems really good to me. Try testing that Kidofcrash23

    Also instead of raising tackling try keeping tackling in the 25-50 range and lower fumble to 5-25. I know you would think there would be too many fumbles but, not really. As long as tackle is not too high it won't cause too many fumbles. The fumble slider seems to work similar to the RBA slider in NCAA. Just put the CPU fumbles up to 99 and user tackling at 5-50 and the CPU run game will be very hard to stop. Some times raising tackling too high will cause too many big hit attempts by the cpu. you also might start seeing too many injuries. i think our high tackle slider might be part of why there have been so many injuries.

    just my 2 cents. Try some of these things in testing and see what you think.
     
  10. kdpnutter

    kdpnutter Walk On

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    I hate the idea of changing the kick power, for teams that have great kick returners it sucks, in the other league I'm in, every single one is thru the end zone and it is. A pain in the butt, I like the chance to try and return it not just watch all of them sail to the back of the end zone or out of it, just one mans opinion.
     
  11. Kidofcrash23

    Kidofcrash23 Walk On

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    Ya, it sucks that teams with great returners wouldnt be able to use them as much, some situations there will be wind for some returns

    My unbiased perspective because I have jacoby ford and he pretty much can break it anytime, i believe increasing the kick power is necessary since the kick return aspect of the game is just broken. If you watch NFL games nowadays, kickers are kicking it out the endzone almost every time. The weaker ones get it to the back of the endzone.

    Again, my opinion, it is necessary.

    Ill try to test out a slider where if somebody has a full bar or really really close to a full bar, it is out of the endzone. So if somebody screws up on the kicking bar, they will be punished with a potential KO return TD.
     
  12. JSimms

    JSimms TLY Season 1 Champs!

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    I have a horrible returner, Marcus Sherels, yet I've already returned 3 kickoffs for TD, and almost had a 4th. The defenders take horrible angles on kickoffs. I've benefited greatly from it being broken, yet I'm a huge proponent of reducing the number of kickoffs via an increase in kickoff power. I should really be 0-4, but am 3-1 almost entirely bc of kick and punt returns. Doesn't feel right IMO...
     
  13. CWT 3000

    CWT 3000 Walk On

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    Ya kick-off and FG power aren't aligned correctly. Kick-offs need to go deeper & FG from 60 like it ain't no thang is retarded.
     
  14. Kidofcrash23

    Kidofcrash23 Walk On

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    may need to discuss decreasing kicking accuracy. Not that it helps, because i tried in practice and still nailed 60 yarders with janikowski. Not sure where we are at with accuracy though. When i played denver, he did miss a 40 yarder which was :eek: though
     
  15. charter04

    charter04 Walk On

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    The kick accuracy slider sucks. I've went all the way down to 5 and still couldn't tell much of a difference
     
  16. Kidofcrash23

    Kidofcrash23 Walk On

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    ya I did at 0. Really no difference.
     
  17. Kidofcrash23

    Kidofcrash23 Walk On

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    kicking slider set to 60 i think is the best. Janikowski on full kick meter, gets it out everytime just around the white area which is pretty common. Not getting full meter will kick into back of endzone, so up to returner to take it out or not. So take wind into account, there will be opportunities to run it out.

     
  18. Kidofcrash23

    Kidofcrash23 Walk On

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    set kicking power at 45, i think is the best. Janikowski needs pretty much full bar for 57-60 yarders no wind. So i think FGs this range will be more difficult when taking wind into account in games.

     
  19. Kidofcrash23

    Kidofcrash23 Walk On

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    Ok so i did some testing and this is what i came up with.

    I put tackling to 0 and 100 and did kick returns with jacoby ford, didn't matter i ran Tds a few times and most of the time im getting to the 40-50 yard line pretty easily. Nothing is going to fix this except kicking beyond the endzone.

    As for the pass coverage, in my first test yesterday i noticed that 6 of the 8 settings, the QB (kaepernick) would throw a normal looking pass to the WR, only the settings at 100/100 would Kaepernick woudl throw a full on bullet pass. I think most of us use bullet pass so i am guessing the CPU is compensating for better reaction/coverage and trying to get to the WR faster. So what i did was i changed the settings and tried to find the minimum setting where he started throwing bullets.

    The combo i came up with was 85 reaction and then 55 pass coverage. Changing it to 80 and 55 woudl make the qb go back to normal passes. Changing it to 85 and 50 would make the qb go back to normal passes. So 85 and 55 is the minimum i was able to come up with to get the QB to bullet pass it.

    I think the baseline should be 85 reaction and 55 pass coverage. The reverse works the same way so if i got 55 reaction and 85 pas coverage, same thing, he will bullet. My opinion, i think leaving the reaction time higher over pass coverage, but i stil lthink we should bump pass coverage to maybe 65-70.

    My suggestion would be 85-70 to at least think we have a realsitic defensive coverage. right now, it is so bad.

    Now next i tried tackling at 0 and 100 first. I do not think this plays a role in more fumbles or hit sticks. when i ran the same run play over and over, i didn't see any more fumbles or hit sticks than the other. On 100, fumbles weren't as common and so was tackling at 0. What tackling i believe does it changes the break tackle ability of the ball carrier. specifically, the first hit. At 0, kyle williams was breaking the first hit almost every time, yes kyle williams. I changed to 100 and he stopped breaking tackles . ON 0 tackle forget bringing down kaepernick, dude breaks the first tackle all the time, but not on 100.

    So what i tried to do is do a similar test tried to get a 50/50 split on break tackles and not breaking tackles on the same play. So i picked the same defense and same run play and out of 20 plays, i was able to get 10/10 break to not break split using tackling setting of 60. Not a very good test since i only did it once, but was the only one that came up with 10/10.

    So instead of just doing minimum for these settings, bumping it up would be best to get tougher results.

    So overall my suggestion:

    FG power = 45

    Kicking Power = 60

    Pass reaction = 85

    Pass coverage = 70

    Tackling = 70
     
  20. niner_empire86

    niner_empire86 Walk On

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    Glad to see I'm not the only have trouble with pass defense. Tim Jennings and Charles Tillman getting beat by 10 yards in man to man on nearly every play is crazy. Glad to know I'm not the only one with issues. The only other issue I've had is getting pressure seems to be something that everyone is experiencing no matter what sliders or teams are used. But other than that I think offensive sliders are pretty solid where they stand. Unless there is a slider to help prevent receivers getting so wide open on just about every play.
     
  21. LSUTRUTH

    LSUTRUTH The one and only

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    I don't think fg power should bet messed with. Pretty much every kicker in the nfl can't hit a 60 yard fg if it's set up right. I hit a 58,59 yarders gains rulah an it took the whole thing I had with sturgis who got cheated with only 90 kpw. I think accuracy should be lowered that way if you are off a little bit then there is a chance you could miss.
     
  22. Matrix Monkey

    Matrix Monkey Walk On

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    Messing with the kicking sliders in M13 seemed to cause problems during bad weather games, where you couldn't even hit an XP.
     
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  23. Kidofcrash23

    Kidofcrash23 Walk On

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    I think the point of lowering the power is because kickers with 90 ratings probalby shouldnt be able to kick 58-59 yarders period. Even with wind, im sure most teams pass up on the kick attempt unless your name is janikowski, tucker, zuerlein, maybe akers im his hey day, and crosby when he had confidence. Even with those kickers, those teams will pass up because of giving up field position. Just watch the games, you will see many teams pass up on 55-60 yard FG attempts very often because there is a high possibility of missing. In this game, the accuracy slider doesnt even matter, but a low 90s rated kicker is an average kicker and shouldn't be able to hit 58-60 yarders half the time and they probably could in this game.

    Even the big legged kicker should have full bars to kick those range.

    In my test, the practice mode is perfect condition with no wind, Janikowski can knock it 65 yards on default sliders. He cant hit 65 in real life, his record 63 was in mile high and his other 60 yard attempts were well short. He is probably consistent in the 54-56 yard range, but anything higher should be a crap shoot. Not in this game, i can probably hit at least 90% of his 57-60 yarders in this game which is unrealistic.

    This brings a little more decision making to the game where owners now should be questioning whether to kick it from those distances . Right now, if a team gets to the 40 yard dline, they are probably going to attempt a kick if they are on 4th down because it is very easy to kick in this game .

    as far as the glitch goes, i need to do more research on that.

    My opinion isn't final obviously, my opinion only really up to Hotrod to decide. Im just testing to make the game as realistic as possible.
     
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  24. Mogriffjr

    Mogriffjr Walk On

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    Might want to check their man ratings as well as how your defense is set up. Those CB are more zone guys IIRC
     
  25. Kidofcrash23

    Kidofcrash23 Walk On

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    talked ot another commish on TSO and they dropped the FG kicking power to 40 and also accuracy to 15. Had no issues with FG glitch and they are half way through the 1st season.
     

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