Sliders: realistic or sim

Discussion in 'Locker Room' started by bcduggan, Dec 3, 2010.

  1. bcduggan

    bcduggan Walk On

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    Most dynasties I come across are looking for sim players. You think that would be good, however, most of the time the sliders are so unreal it's almost like playing arcade style than playing sim style.

    So which should it be for sliders? realistic or sim?
     
  2. Drifterbub

    Drifterbub Help me hide a body?

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    I have to use more realistic sliders in my league just to compensate for the stick skills that the guys have.

    I developed a set offline that plays beautifully for me (perfect amount of plays, yardage, ypp, attempts, scores, stats, feel, etc), but most people on this site would rip them apart.
     
  3. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    What is the difference between realistic and sim?
     
  4. Nautica

    Nautica #whatisdrugs?

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    I am with you here drift when it comes to realistic. I like a good set of sliders where the stats are about right, and where players are not putting up 50-0 scores. I feel that a good set of Heisman sliders gives the best "Realistic" feel. Most on this site won't touch Heisman for what ever reason, but a good set can make a huge difference in how someone views them.
     
  5. Drifterbub

    Drifterbub Help me hide a body?

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    I interpret as the following:

    Realistic - sliders adjusted to make the CPU play however they need to in order to achieve a certain realistic result overall. This means that gameplay is sacrificed to keep the computer competitive and/or generate realistic stats. These sliders are generally tuned in response to a user's skills and playcalling.

    Sim - sliders adjusts to achieve the best gameplay. Tuned to achieve realistic stats, results and AI competitiveness based on sim-style playcalling and situations. Should not be affected by user input as tuning a slider category a significant amount in either direction will result in the CPU doing unrealistic things.


    IMO, the only way to achieve true, sim style of play is to bring back the helmet cam and only play with that. When you can see the entire field, every blitz and every hole, it gets hard to accomplish a lot of things that affect the game in real life. Plus, it would eliminate the "water-bugging" with ball carriers that everyone loves to do this year.
     
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  6. JerzeyReign

    JerzeyReign #BeatOhio

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    I agree with this definition.

    My interpretation is:

    Realistic- Having players 'respond' the best they can on the field. For example, the cornerbacks. I hate when they run the route before the reciever so in any of my slider sets you won't see that. What that means? Recievers have a slight advantage over the CBs almost everytime. How do I combat that? Drop the WR catching and QB accuracy down. Even with those tweaks the QB/WR will dominate so I tweaked the defensive line as well. What happens there might seem 'unrealistic' but its that way to give you a realistic time in the pocket. You'll get those 5-6 second pockets every once and awhile but not every time. Couple more sliders need to be tweaked but I won't get into all that. Another thing zero threshold. I don't like seeing LBs sticking with WRs all over the field or do I like seeing a 70 speed DT chase my 98 speed scatback down from behind 20 yards down the field. Raise your hand if you ever had a DT return a fumble 60 yards plus. Zero threshold and that fat bastard is getting caught by a WR or RB. Those are just a couple of my ideas of what 'realistic' sliders aim for.

    Sim- Basically look to get the right number of plays, ypc, etc... no matter what these sliders tend to play the same no matter who your facing. Wander around the forums and you'll see user teams blowing out ranked CPU teams like their cupcakes. 'Sim', and I use that term loosely, sliders aim to get stats correctly and that is all.


    I think an issue, I hope I don't offend anyone, is that most 'sim' gamers are not 'sim' at all but casual gamers who follow sim rules. As a hardcore sim gamer I get frustrated sometimes with some of the thought process from some of the other 'sim' players you find running throughout all the gaming sites. They get 6 penalties in a game and they go crazy. They accept every user going undefeated against the CPU as legit. They accept users always in the top 10 as legit.

    If casual gamers stop mislabeling themselves as sim gamers the world would be a perfect place. Fuck world hunger, Go Sim or Go Home;)

    /rant
     
  7. Drifterbub

    Drifterbub Help me hide a body?

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    I think we have our definitions reversed. But I think they are distinguishable.
     
  8. Gyrene76

    Gyrene76 What does the fox say?

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    My biggest thing is that some guys try to hide behind "sim" play. I know this is a discussion about sliders more or less, but I didn't want to open up a thread just for it.

    Any college football team has an offensive or defensive plan. That plan's is primarily based on two things.

    1. Your team's strengths
    2. Your opponent's weaknesses

    My only thing is, just because someone is beating you the first thing that should not come to mind is CHEESE.

    That is a total cop out and poor sportsmanship. Granted, there is definitely cheese that has happened in the past. As long as they aren't running the same plays over and over, or bringing 8 in the box and jamming receivers, while guessing pass.

    I feel that some people have gotten away from that and feel like cheese is rampant on this site when in fact I've come across very little if any. I play online, if you need reminded what cheese is go play a few games. After Pryor has ran the option out of wishbone the entire game or people are going for it on 4th and infinite with 4 verts, you will come back to your senses.
     
  9. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    So there are two definitions of cheese?

    Cheese (v) - the deliberate act of abusing the failures in a games design.
    Cheese (v) - being out executed and complaining incessantly without any valid point.
     
  10. Gyrene76

    Gyrene76 What does the fox say?

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    That's my point exactly.

    There is always someone better and there is some that may be so good that are nearly impossible, but doesn't denote cheesy play.

    It's frustrating. I've not had people complain on me (to my face) but I hear it constantly. I've found out, despite loving the community (no homo) that some sim players can be the biggest whiners. Not all or even most, but definitely a percentage.
     
  11. Iron Mickey

    Iron Mickey I'd take her out for some casadias

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    :rolleyes:
     
  12. Iron Mickey

    Iron Mickey I'd take her out for some casadias

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    :thumbsup:
     
  13. BlyGilmore

    BlyGilmore It's All In The Hips!

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    historically there are a few big problems with sliders.

    the first is something we can't control - the fact that by and large the slider options we have suck and tend to be ambiguous. Nobody here has any idea what changing QB Accuracy from 50 to 45 really does. Plus sliders tend to impact more than one aspect of the game. Ideally sliders would look something like the old High Heat sliders - every rating could be tweaked up or down both across the board or by position.

    the other is that 99 percent of the sliders out there aren't based on any kind of science or research, but instead just a series observations and gut feelings by whoever has decided they want to make the sliders. and as a result they're often highly based on the perceptions and bias of whoever made them.

    also sliders almost never look to take a large number of players, put them in a big pool and create a set that is realistic for them across the board. instead they either tend to react to the game play of whoever is creating them, or in league situations the "outliers."

    situation one looks like this - i'm a good passer, so i'm going to make passing tough as shit. so if you aren't a good passer, you'll suffer. but i also might not be able to run the ball, so to make me be adequate at running, we'll make running easier - resulting in some guy running for a shitload of yards. the other like this ... player A just threw for 5,000 yards. that's crazy, so we're going to overreact and make passing harder. despite the fact nobody else in the league threw for more than 3,000 yards and we have guys with 20 INTs on the year.

    and finally, just because you made sliders that work today doesn't mean they'll work next week. the moment you change them players are instinctually trying to find what works and what doesn't work (back to them being imperfect because of EA - there's always wholes) and ultimately make the sliders unrealistic again. and i'd argue often that results is game play styles become more generic as players have less options available for how to play winning football.

    (see last year where over night everybody was using free safeties on defense and playing with anything other than a fast Qb was considered a disadvantage).
     

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