Sliders

Discussion in 'The Longest Yard' started by AgenT Smith, Sep 20, 2012.

  1. AgenT Smith

    AgenT Smith Walk On

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,046
    Are there any plans to adjust sliders? Specifically, defensive sliders?

    I ask this because it seems like playing consistent defense is impossible right now.

    The new passing system already gives an advantage to the offense, and where the defensive sliders are at right now, it makes it worse for defenses. I've been picked apart (both in the CCM and outside of it) because players either don't react, or the new "passing trajectories" allow you to lead WRs away from defenders unrealistically, or because QBs can fit passes right between defenders. Any QB with high ACC ratings will destroy defenses, no matter what.

    What also contributes (and makes it WORSE for the "Tampa 2s" and zone defenses) is the way defenders play zone defense. I'm guessing with the way EA did the whole "man align" thing or whatever it is (where CBs will always matchup on CBs, etc.) zones go all crazy and go to all kinds of depth on the field. They're already too deep by default most of the time (mainly the hook/yellow zones) and players in zone don't cover players all the way through the zone. It just makes it EXTREMELY difficult for a team who has a zone defense scheme like the Tampa 2 to play good defense, and it makes it hard to play zone defense by default.

    Not to mention, getting pressure with the front 4 is not reliable and I'd say almost impossible unless you hold on to the ball.

    Basically, defenses are at a big disadvantage this year and may be contributing to the high scores, the huge yardage, etc. I'm just hoping these get adjusted. A lot of the better defenses, I've noticed, are non-existent and I believe this is the reason.
     
  2. Randiesel75

    Randiesel75 Walk On

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    5,645
    I think the gameplay is fine, so disagree with your thoughts.
     
  3. dj illmatic 23

    dj illmatic 23 Walk On

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,274
    As someone who ran an NCAA OD for several years I can tell you that adjusting sliders is a pain in the ass. First, no matter what you adjust, someone is still going to be unhappy and want you to change this slider or that slider. Second, when you finally find the perfect slider set everyone can live with, EA releases a patch that affects the gameplay and sends you back to the drawing board. Your opponents deal with the same issues you do having to stop Cutler, Marshall, Hester, etc...
     
  4. Ghost

    Ghost Before the rollieee!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,521
    I also think Sliders are fine, no need to be adjusted
     
  5. BlyGilmore

    BlyGilmore It's All In The Hips!

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2009
    Messages:
    3,045
    This is the problem with sliders. There are posts like this, and yet just a few days ago people were saying scores have been inflated a bit because because of pick 6s and interceptions.

    My personal experience? I held the 'number one offense in the preseason' to 3 points in my opener mostly because of two big plays, 4 sacks and consistent pressure from my front 4 while rarely blitzing.

    this is why i've been saying for years you can't make slider changes based on personal experience, perceptions or feelings. because player a might be struggling with something for a whole host of reasons, but players b, c and d are fine or excelling.

    instead you take a number of games, look at some stats league wide, and compare them to either the NFL or goals you have set.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  6. AgenT Smith

    AgenT Smith Walk On

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,046
    I guess...

    My problem isn't even really with scores or stats. It's just the way coverage in the game is played by the CPU/AI/whatever it's considered. I'm fully confident that if anyone ran zone consistently, even just Cover 2, they will see what I'm talking about. Or at least, the majority.

    I just want something that improves the defense for everyone across the board. I don't want to have to go into a game forced to play man exclusively. That is unrealistic and it shouldn't even give me the best chance to succeed on defense, yet it does.

    I also don't feel it's constructive for someone to come in and simply state, "Well I think gameplay is fine, so I disagree." I'm trying to get help or discussion on what I think is an issue, the least you could do is explain why you think it's fine.

    If I simply state, "defense is broken" and then someone else says, "No it isn't" then where have we gotten? Nowhere.

    But if everyone disagrees (even though I know that isn't the case) then so be it. It's just frustrating to watch players NOT react to passes in the two games I've played, or to see that a WR has spidey-sense and can automatically detect that you turned a streak into a post route, or to watch CBs and LBs not make plays on a ball that went RIGHT past them.
     
  7. Kidofcrash23

    Kidofcrash23 Walk On

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,597
    My thoughts are, the there are a lot of big play ability in this game, but that is no different than any other madden. The zone however was better last year though, i can admit that, but looking at the amount of picks in some of these games, defense has no issues getting some turnovers.

    I've mentioned, the only issue i have is the poor angles your defenders take when pursuing a ball carrier, not sure what fixes that.

    On the topic of changing sliders, changing sliders will create more issues with people "believing" that the sliders are off as opposed to just playing the game and picking better plays. So my point is not the sliders wont do anything, my point is sliders will "fix" one problem and create more problems. Also, when will the fiddling of the sliders stop? It would be an ongoing conversation.

    I was never a fan of adjusting sliders when i use to play offline franchise, i always picked all madden and sliders default.

    for this league, since we play on all pro, i would just leave it default across the board on sliders to prevent slider conversations.

    Set the settings and leave as be.
     
  8. dakota7

    dakota7 Former Blue Chip Recruit

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2009
    Messages:
    12,443
    Probably a stupid question, but sliders effect user/user games? I know in NCAA, sliders only have an effect on user/cpu games.
     
  9. AgenT Smith

    AgenT Smith Walk On

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,046
    IMO the playcalling argument applies moreso to offense than defense. You can say, "Well if you're throwing a lot of incompletions, then pick plays with quick passes and get a rhythm going" and it's all good. But there is no, "pick a better play on defense." There's really only two types of plays you can pick on defense - general plays and the cheesy plays that will always work (you can basically equate that to nano blitzes, overload blitzes, etc.)

    Defense doesn't work in the sense of, pick a better play. You pick plays based on depending on the personnel and situation. In all honestly, shorter passes are higher % and thus, SHOULD work most of the time. The problem lies in the fact that for some reason, from game one of the preseason to my game with dakota, defenders simply do not react to the ball nearly as much as they should be.

    BlyGilmore , I believe we even joked about this as you lobbed at least 3 passes and my defenders didn't do anything. Specifically, Charles Tillman. I still remember a throw to Barden that 2-3 players could've at least swatted, yet they did nothing, and I was usering one of those players.

    dakota7, I personally feel like a lot of throws you made shouldn't have been completed. Not because I'm bitter or mad, but because based on where the ball was placed and where defenders were, it should have been an incompletion. You completed virtually every pass, which shouldn't be the case if you're throwing the ball nearly 30 times.

    I'm not trying to complain, I'm trying to make the game better for everyone. I may compare some stats with NFL stats and post them here. If they compare closely, then I have no argument. But I'm confident they won't.
     
  10. AgenT Smith

    AgenT Smith Walk On

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,046
    From what I heard around here, sliders do affect user games.
     
  11. BlyGilmore

    BlyGilmore It's All In The Hips!

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2009
    Messages:
    3,045
    well let me serve up what I said with the caveat that the defensive AI, especially when it comes to zone defenses, sucks.

    for those of us who have played NCAA for years, we're used to zones really being our base defense, and man-to-man being the change-of-pace defense to keep the offense honest. In Madden (at least this year) this is reversed. M2M schemes should be your base, with zones thrown in to keep the offense honest (and unlike NCAA, a well timed, unexpected zone defense has a bit higher chance to result in a pick IMO).

    If you're running a Tampa 2 or Cover 3 or Cover 4 on most downs, and the offense KNOWS you're running one of these zones on most downs, you're going to get scorched. But if you're running mostly various M2M schemes, or even 50 percent M2M, 50 percent Cover 2, you're going to do better.

    I'll admit I haven't looked much at the sliders this year, but if they're the same as in years past, there really isn't much we can do about this problem. Because any change you make just makes M2M even more effective, and will likely impact other aspects of the game as well. then you get into slider changes to negate other slider changes ... and all hell breaks loose.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  12. AgenT Smith

    AgenT Smith Walk On

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,046
    Yeah that's what it seemed like from playing NCAA Football 13. Honestly I didn't know zones didn't work well in Madden because I haven't really played Madden (before this year) on a regular basis since maybe Madden 10.

    And yeah I get that about zone. The thing is, while on passing downs most teams run man coverage (I'm thinking usually 2 Man Deep), the Bears usually run a Cover 2 zone designed to keep everything underneath. So basically I can't even utilize the personnel as they should be because of the deficiencies within the A.I.

    I do understand about the sliders affecting a lot of stuff though, and that's why I was asking. I was more interested in any general sliders that could help. It just sucks that a have a lot of good zone coverage players, but I can't utilize it. Sigh...
     
  13. BlyGilmore

    BlyGilmore It's All In The Hips!

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2009
    Messages:
    3,045
    See I don't think this translates into "can't utilize players who are good at zone." I think it just means playing a bit differently than it sound like you had planned on.
     
  14. AgenT Smith

    AgenT Smith Walk On

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,046
    I guess I just have to work on playing better defense. I'll see as the year goes on...

    Can you look at stats from Preseason games?
     
  15. Danthraxxx

    Danthraxxx Walk On

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2011
    Messages:
    8,531
    Can we take a look at the speed threshold maybe ? I had multiple plays against Giants CPU where Shaun Rodgers is catching people from behind , really seems a bit silly to me that we would have that.
     
  16. Randiesel75

    Randiesel75 Walk On

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    5,645
    your inquiry is noted and the leadership team will review.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Kidofcrash23

    Kidofcrash23 Walk On

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,597
    I think the sliders have already been toned down to 35, so the difference in speed stands out more. Speed already kills in this game, but reducing it will cause the game to be all speed.

    It is pretty normal to have Dlineman to make tackles down the filed, now if you are saying that in a one on one situation where you clearly passed rogers and there is nobody in front and he caught up to your wr/rb, may be unrealistic, i just haven't experienced that at all or i haven't noticed. Typically, if my wr/rb has nobody in front, i havent had any DT catch up, mostly dbs and safeties that come at an angle.

    I am proponent on having the threshold back to default to make the difference in speed stand out less.
     
  18. JSimms

    JSimms TLY Season 1 Champs!

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,649
    Only two sliders that I believe need adjusted - speed threshold and penalties. There are virtually zero penalties thus far, which is NOT sim. Additionally, I've been told (but can't confirm) that increasing slider on holding penalties will penalize users who want to bounce inside runs outside every single time...again just my 2 cents.

    I Peench - can you confirm any of the above from your experience in TMFL so far??
     
  19. I Peench

    I Peench Caught in the hustle

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    8,298
    Shaun's been rather cryptic in this regard, so I can't really comment.

    All I know is that the speed threshold makes it more difficult to bounce running backs outside. I think that's why we have it at 75. Plays fine imo.
     
  20. Randiesel75

    Randiesel75 Walk On

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    5,645
    I've been seeing penalties in my games, specifically holding when bouncing outside, as you mention. The CPU had a pass interference against me last night, which made me happy.
     
  21. Kidofcrash23

    Kidofcrash23 Walk On

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,597
    When you say "we" do you mean this league The Longest Yard? Right now, this league is at 35 threshold the last i saw.

    It would be good to have settings that regulate the ability to take a dive and bounce it out. This would force people to actually run the play as designed.
     
  22. Randiesel75

    Randiesel75 Walk On

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    5,645
    TMFL is at 75
     
  23. JSimms

    JSimms TLY Season 1 Champs!

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,649
    I thought this was a "community"? Why keep a good set of sliders to himself, instead of sharing with other members that pay to be part of this community? He could at least share it with Ryno...not sure I see any harm in that. Oh well...
     
  24. I Peench

    I Peench Caught in the hustle

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    8,298
    Man, you just love to knock on Shaun, huh? I was just saying I don't know what Shaun has done, minus the threshold at 75. Shaun just doesn't broadcast changes, to his league or any other. I endorse that.

    You know sliders don't even work right now, right? They will with the update.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2012
  25. Kidofcrash23

    Kidofcrash23 Walk On

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,597
    I probably wouldnt disclose either, it creates discussions about how the game is unplayable and a lot of complaints and request to adjust sliders. Cant keep twiddling with sliders, keep it simple and stable.

    People will complain regardless, you can tell people that you changed the sliders but you really didnt and people will complain how it changed the game. I think i was reading a slider thread i TMFL and people were complaining about something because of the slider change, but shaun said he didnt change anything.
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page