State of the OMFL - Serious League Issue - Only grown ups allowed to discuss

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by natedawg212000, Dec 28, 2010.

  1. natedawg212000

    natedawg212000 New Orleans Saints

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    This is an open discussion for the league to discuss a wide problem that is spreading with this new Madden. If you are not interested in truly figuring out a solution, and are only interested in stirring the pot, then please keep your thoughts to yourself. Other than that, you are free to post.

    Bottom line is we are stuck with AM. I know some hate it, some love it, but it's probably not the best ever Madden that's been created. With the personal feelings of this Madden, or its settings aside, we must look at 2 serious issues.

    From all of the discussions I am having with guys who have been playing online madden since online madden was created (and yes, I am one of those guys), and talking with guys who are fairly new to online madden (last 2-4 years), and also listening to discussions going on in the blast chat; we have some issues that need resolving or the OMFL will not last until 2k12.

    There is a fine line between enjoyment and realisium. It's always been the hard part of what we do as a comittee to find rules that guide and govern the play, but not too many rules where guys can be flexable, game plan and see their hard work pay off in W's.

    The issue with AM right now is that Man coverage and defense as a whole is extremly good and fairly easy for some to be really good at. If you were a dominate D player in 2k10, then its pretty easy to totally totally shut teams down in 2k11.

    Guys have learned how to stay within our current rules, find new stuff that now works too well for this madden, and do it over and over and over again. We are begining to lose very good owners, owners who know their online madden and know what straight games are. I personally have only had a hand full of games this year that have been enjoyable. When you lose, in a straight up game, its not fun, but the game itself is enjoyable. You can tip your hat to the other guy because he made more plays and beat you. That's not the case in this madden. Often owners are feeling they lost, but not to a better owner who out coached them, but to a owner who decided to do more cheesy stuff than the other guy. I personally feel this is the case. the winner isn't always the better coach and team, its the guy who will push the envelope further. Sad, but in most cases, true.

    Let me stop beating around the bush and straight up name the issues that we are facing.

    -8 in the box all game
    -blitzing all game
    -man all game
    -same D all game (same plays or type of plays)
    -hot routes and audibles (O and D)

    A - 8 in the box all game. I know one of my recent games I faced a team who had 8 in the box all game long. Simply put, in this AM setting, its not fun, not enjoyable, and not super sim. It just works too good. Guys are putting 8 in the box all game, and manning up, and blitzing. A lot of times its pretty hard to beat, and some times unbeatable. QB's are getting sacked 1 second after hiking the ball, Defenders are just flying every where, simply put theres no down side to putting 8 in the box and because of that this has become a trend. I wish, I really do, that we could just talk to owners and say quit it, but I dont think thats going to happen. Something needs to give, because this is quickly becoming a new age cheese tactic that will hurt the longevity of this league.

    My suggestion is to outlaw 4/6 is a full time defense and put a percentage like we do offensive plays, as to how much it can be used. Short yardage is fine, no limit imo, but a full time every down D - cheese.

    B - blitzing all game long. Guys are doing this all game because man vs man is just so darn good and Defenses are so fast that guys aren't having a chance to do anything. In real life, most teams will catch on and burn guys who blitz all game long. I know some games it has to happen, whatever. You know what is sim and not sim, and this is again, quickly becoming a cheese tactic which is being used by too many folks.

    My suggestion is as above. If it continues and guys don't back off then put a percentage on it. The main problem is theres not a whole lotta ways to track this stuff. What's going to happen is if you continue to get complained about, you will be shown the door. Proof or no proof.

    C - Look we get it guys, man vs man is beastly in this version. This doesn't mean you shouldn't run any zone. Last version zone was broke and a lot of guys wouldn't run it and I think thats bull. I ran close to 50/50 zone/man last version and I do the same here. You play sim, regardless of what works great and what doesnt.

    My suggestion is if you dont back off and learn to run some zone, and guys complain, more than 4 complaints in the same season, you're gone, no questions asked. Sounds harsh, but it's time to clean up this cheesy D stuff that's spreading like wild fire around here.

    D - Because of the above reasons teams are running the same crap defense over and over and over again. Look if it's cheesy on O, then its cheesy on D. Guys seriously need to mix it up.

    See my suggestion above.

    E - this is probably the biggest epidemic that is spreading throughout the league today. This is becoming a major issue. While listening to some discussions in the blast chat I read some guys discussing calling a zone D, and hot routing LB's to play man. Basically making up their own D play. TOTAL CHEESEFEST. You called it - YOU RUN IT. Same on O and D, IMO. This hot routing WRs and TEs on O and LBs and Safeties on D is total out of line. It's cheese no matter how you slice is. I am ok with the occasional hot route and audible, it happens, but it shouldn't happen more than 4-7 times a game. Anything more is cheese. You picked the playbook, you picked the play, RUN WHAT YOU CALLED. Same thing goes for calling a sweep and taking it up the gut or calling a blast and running outside. Same thing for calling a O play and hot routing guys all over the place to make up your own play, same thing with hot routing every down on D to make you own special D. STOP IT.

    My suggestion is if this can't quit like men, then we make a rule that limits the amount of hot routes and audibles that can be used per game. IMO 10 combined hot routes and audible per game is PLENTY. The other issue is there is no good way to track this either, so if you get more than 3 complaints per season - you're gone, no questions asked.

    Let's discuss as a league, and like men, and see what we all think here. These are serious issues that need to be taken care of.
     
  2. Jeremy

    Jeremy The ONLY 2 time OMFL CHampion!!!!

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    Wether you guys see it or not this is and will kill the league. If thats what you want, keep on doing what your doing. If you want a competitive, cheese free league, change your playing style now. Nobody is proving anything by figuring out a scheme that is almost unbeatable eventhough the steps taken are within the rules. Doing that shows zero respect to fellow league members and shows a serious flaw in your integrity.

    We have seriously considered implementing a ZERO audible rule on both sides of the ball....Crazy, I know but it has gotten that bad and is getting worse. We dont want to do it but the majority may have to suffer for a small few.

    If we have to starting booting people to clean this league up we will and if it eventually causes us to close shop until Madden 12 so be it. But we will not allow the OMFL to become what it is on its way of becoming.

    From this point on, warnings will begin to be handed out which will lead to boots. We encourage all members to report ANYTHING that is a violation of OMFL rules or ANYTHING that you may consider "cheese" or unsportsmanlike wether in our rules or not. The excuse that,"Well, its not in the rules" will no longer be vaild. We as a board are as tired of writing new rules as you guys are reading them. Play with integrity and sportsmanship and if you cannot, leave on your own or you will be shown the door shortly.

    This is not meant to be a threat in anyway or a shot at any one owner in particular,but it is something that we are moving forward with. You guys know if your doing things that exploits the game. Either you guys decide to clean it up or look for another league.
     
  3. Big D

    Big D Walk On

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    Honestly people are probably going to be a bit surprised here by what I'm going to say and talk about, but I think the exact same things that Nate was saying above.

    Man/Zone Defense: To be 100% honest it was the actual game that forced me to change it up this year. While last year I was probably 85-90% man to man, this year I got absolutely thrashed in three straight games in my pass defense because my man to man just doesnt work that well anymore, especially when guys expect what I'm calling. I'm not calling a GREAT deal of zone on passing teams, probably 30-40%. Its worked pretty well for me. And its made the game a lot more sim. I think just like last version we may need to put a rule in place for the amount of man vs zone we see. not too drastic, but like an 80% max either way.

    Blitzing: Everybody knows I blitz a very high percentage of the time. I think this is truly up to the individual owners to 'fix'. I have very consciously made an effort to bring my blitz percentages down. I'm blitzing a LOT less than last year, and you know what its made me really open up my playbook and find other things that work (including zone). I dont think we can put a rule in place for this tho. . .my suggestion would be that if guys are constantly blitzing, then go ahead and run a bunch of screens and/or flat passes until they back off.

    Here is my biggest issue that I have seen. Guys are moving LBs and lineman around (and even safeties) to overload blitz. Hot routing guys and all sorts of crap. Some of them think we cant tell what they are doing, or that we are too naieve or 'new' at this to understand. Well guys, I have to tell ya that its pretty obvious to us longtime players that what you are doing is crummy and really hurting our league. I filed my first complaint since Season 2 this year because I was so fed up. We need to start policing ourselves better. . .and if that doesnt work then the board will have no choice but to put in some serious rules.
     
  4. natedawg212000

    natedawg212000 New Orleans Saints

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    I love all that you said, except the part about flats and screens. I dont want to punch cheese with cheese, know what I mean?
     
  5. bamagrad

    bamagrad Back to Back British Amateur Champion

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    I know I just on the Outside of this, I just wanted to throw in a couple of Suggestions.

    For everyone I played against I hope my Gamemanship was what u would expect from a Sim Player, I tried to play to the best of the ability of the Teams i had (Seattle and Washington) There have been alot of Flaws with this New Version of Madden and I know its Frustrating to have those, But it happens anytime u deal with Technology yr gonna have flaws even in NCAA there have been Flaws. Just Keep playing and instead of Bitching about it, Man Up and play the Game, We all Love the Game of Football whether it be NCAA or Madden so don't do anything to cut the Value of the Game, Such as Exposing flaws in either Offense or Defense, Its No Fun for Anyone playing u and really not fun if u have to Cheat to Win.

    Suggestions

    1. People Read yr Defense before u Audible, I mean my god is it that hard. I would Suggest 1 Audible per Drive if no one can figure out how to read a Defense. I only audibled least once in a blue moon if i saw a different set up on my opposing Def. Other then that I ran the play i had weither it be good or bad.

    2. Blitzing- WTF?? If u have to Blitz every play to stop a team then u might as well go back to the Other Cheesers I love Beating in Online Play. It's like a Drug once u get it u can't put it down. Play to the Strengths of yr Defense no matter who yr team is. I know there are some Fantastic Defenses in the Game and but u can play Stellar Defense without Blitzing every play. in games I've played I have only blitzed 20% of the Time cause i feel my Defense can make plays and save Blitz packages for when i really need it. so i would suggest at least 20% of the Game u play u can blitz. other then that play Zone or man to Man without Blitzing.

    Last Thing: Have Respect for yr Fellow Man play the Game with Heart and Soul, Don't Cheat to Win. Its not Worth it.

    Have a Great Night Everyone in OMFL and I miss playing u Guys.

    BamaGrad
     
  6. BRUCE80

    BRUCE80 Let the dirt just shower over you..

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    It has been a constant this year of seeing 8 guys in the box, then mix that in with the bump and run outside and mix in a blitz..Is that sound football? Or just a way to beat the game?

    On at least 5 occations running the ball this year my QB has been tackled before i could even hand the ball off.

    More times then I can count I have seen guys streaming through the oline to my qb when I am passing after multiple shifts, audibles and assignements have been changed.

    Madden Oline AI is poor and it always has been, they are designed to block the guy over them in most cases.

    If beating madden is what your after, go play offline against the cpu and pound the piss out of it. In your league games play sim, have a sound mixed strategy on both sides of the ball. Run and pass with different sets and routes. Mix up your bump n run with some off coverage and some zone and man..

    When you cant even get a hand off done is that good D or just plain cheese by the D?

    This isnt Pac Man or Tysons Punch out, where you figure out a pattern that works and do it over and over again. This is football where you actually have to think about what your doing.

    Beat the guy your playing with sound football decisions and plays not with AI beating "tweaks"..

    If your at TF to WIN at all costs your at the wrong place. If you win because your just that damn good I can and will tip my cap and tell you great job.
     
  7. Jeremy

    Jeremy The ONLY 2 time OMFL CHampion!!!!

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    Well said Bruce.

    I have been with PS3 version of OMFL from day one. This league has turned a complete 180 on what it used to be and not for the better. Guys were recruited here to play the game the way it was meant to be played, clean & unaltered for the most part. It is no longer that. We have slowly turned into a league that no longer puts sportsmanship first. This is going to change and change NOW.

    Every owner,including myself, need to take a step back and honestly evaluate your gameplay and why you are here. Borderline is no longer acceptable.

    I am looking at some of the stats in this league and they are mind blowing. Cheese gameplay turns into cheese stats and 99% of the time the numbers dont lie.

    There is no cushion on this anymore guys. The OMFL is going back to sim football starting now, Week 8. Get your gameplay to sim or consider yourself a non-OMFLer.
     
  8. Big D

    Big D Walk On

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    To also be fair, it seems like we are trying to beat around the bush here. You guys need to talk to the people involved in this, or those guys suspected of doing un-sim stuff. You might have already done this, but this thread won't do much if you also don't individually talk to the guys.

    I am always self-reflecting on my own game play. In fact now that I have this crazy win streak I am doing it even more. I think if you ask anybody I've played during this streak they will tell you that I play a darn clean and sim game. Not to toot my own horn here, but if I can do it and still win then I dont get why other owners have to resort to cheesy crap stuff.

    And this is not to say that I haven't ever done things the wrong way. But you know what happened each time I was confronted with an issue? I simply said OK, that something I'll learn how to change. There are some examples of this:

    1) Gaddy had issues with how I was milking the playclock down almost every offensive play. I realized that this wasn't really "sim" since we played 8 minute quarters so I changed. You will almost never see me snap the ball with under :20 on the playclock now.

    2) Joe and Jeremy took issue with the frequency of screen passes I ran and how I was scrambling to the right during these plays. I realized that I may have been 'going to the well' too much here so I altered and made a consious decision to change. You will now NEVER EVER see me run more than 2 screens in a game, and never do i ever sprint right when passing on a screen.

    3) Multiple guys made mention of the frequency of my hot routing and audibiling. I now will rarely...rarely hot rote and almost never audible on offense. In fact you will see me call timeouts rather than audible in a lot of situations because I just feel its more sim. Defensively, I've taken the hot route nearly completely out of my gameplan. Just no need for it anymore except on very rare occassions...maybe a handful of times per game.

    4) When guys started complaining about man/zone ratio, I started to immediately throw in a lot more zone. The game itself also helped this as the patch came out at the same time that greatly improved zone defense. But I didn't want to be that guy at the end of the day that everybody was pointing their finger at. I'm certainly glad I changed, because now I have a clear conscience when this was brought up tonight. LOL.


    Basically guys my point is this. . .and please let me be a little self indulgent here to make this point. Everybody here is competitive or we wouldn't be in an online league like this, so naturally everybody certainly likes and tries to win. But winning should not come before playing the game the right way. And goddarnit, if I can make all these changes and play the game pretty darn sim and still win. . .then I know you all can too!!!

    Have an open mind. If somebody brings an issue to your attention, realize that there probably is something in your gameplay that you need to change for the betterment of the league. I've done it, and I know I'm not perfect and there will always be things that I can do to become a better more 'sim' player. If somebody seriously brings something to my attention, I can gosh darn guarantee you that I am going to change it. Just have that same flexible attitude and the OMFL will live long like it ought too!
     
  9. Winuvas

    Winuvas OMFL Jets

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    There are few things that bother me more than losing a game of Madden in the moment that it happens. Usually it's just my personal play and dumb decisions that cost me games, and, thankfully, that has been the case in my two losses this year.

    What really bothers me is being considered either a quitter or a cheeser. More than losing a game of Madden. I'd rather have a reputation as a sim, but sucky, player than a winner who is borderline.

    That being said, I had one game this year where I went overboard for the sake of victory. I did things that were borderline on offense, and in some cases, over the line. I felt worse after that one victory than I ever did about all the losses in both Madden 10 and Madden 11.

    Winning is nice, sure. Everyone here wants to win. No one wants to get their keesters handed to them every week by other players in a sim environment where both players are playing as sim as Madden will allow.

    Now imagine that same owner getting his keester handed to him every week NOT because both owners are playing sim-style football that we strive for in the OMFL, but because someone is pushing the envelope of the rules and using every exploit within those rules to get a win. How fun is that? It isn't. And I'm speaking from both sides of the fence on this one: as one who did it, and as someone who had it done to me this season.

    In both cases, I was very lucky to have a guy on the other side who listened, or told me, calmly about what was done during the game. I'd like to think that I have both gotten better as a player, and as a person, from both interactions. I will not mention names here, but I think the people involved know who they are. And I appreciate their honesty and openness to talk, and listen, to what the problems were.

    Guys, winning is NOT the reason we are here. Speaking as someone who has lost far more games than he has won, I don't play this version of Madden for its great gameplay or lack of flaws on both offense and defense. I play it to hang out with you guys. You guys make this league what it is, good or bad.

    Right now, there are a few of us that are dragging it down for all the OMFL. Notice I did not say "you", but "us". This is something we have to deal with now, and as a unified group, to make better. This league will not survive if we don't clean up the gameplay and stop trying to win at all costs. It's lonely at the top when you're king of the mountain, but it's even lonelier when everyone below you thinks that you cheated to get there.

    If you even think you may be at fault, clean the act up. I don't want to see anyone I like leave this league, but I also don't want guys here who think this is all about getting the win by any means necessary. Losing makes you better. If you don't lose, you can't really truly enjoy the victories when they finally start coming in because you've learned what you did wrong in losing, and have strived to correct the errors.

    There was a point not very long ago where I thought winning a game would help me enjoy it more. I was very wrong. I'd rather tank a season playing straight football than win every game with borderline tactics. And I have strived to play sim football after my recent incident, and I think I have, on both sides of the ball. I'm not saying I'm perfect, or any sort of measuring stick, but I've always been one of the owners in this league that, I think, is respected for playing it like you see it in the NFL. Granted, it has never earned me much in the win column EVER, but I'd rather walk through this league with my head held high knowing I played the game right than have more Ws than Ls on my fake team's record.

    To those teams that have played me this year, thank you for being sim players or being patient and listening to what tactics may be less than sim. Those are the kinds of owners the OMFL has to have going forward to keep this a viable, sim-style, cheese-free league.
     
  10. weblink21

    weblink21 Walk On

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    I hate to be this guy, but I honestly did not know tha t we were having these problems. Most of my games have been in my division and maybe I am just blessed with good owners like Dunn, Jetrho and greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeg, but most of my games have been sim. I had 1 game out of the division that I lost that was alot of cheese, but I was just letting him go. He isn't here anymore so I guess it caught up. No need to call him out. I am with you guys, I would rather be known as a bad sim player than a good cheese player. My defense is near the bottom of the league in almost every category so I don't know what we should do to fix defenses. If I knew what to do, I would fix my own, but if it is such a big problem that it is putting the league in jeopardy I have to get involved and try to help. IMO alot of what I just read seems that this is becoming more of a owner issue than rules issue. This is supposed to be a cheese free league. I can go online and play cheese games whenever I want online, but I can not stand those games. I think that if people want to cheese.....boot them. F it. Weed through the people that do not want to listen and bring in people that do. Maybe i am naive, but I feel like this leafage should be a privilege and is a great one. All of the sim players that we have were at one poin a new player. I don't think it would be hard to replace the cheesers with new ones. I am no calling ANYONE out because like I said, I haven't seen a lot of this and I really like most owners. I have noticed alot of man coverage. I have honestly had opponents in 3rd and long and been afraid to play zone, but I play it. The blitzing thing would drive me insane in a game, but just out of curiosity, cant you just hit a hot route where they are blitzing or is this mostly on a run. I have had ALOT of times I noticed 8 in the box and run blitz, but I thought it was just my lack of skill. I would put percentages on how many times someone plays man/zone. I think that blitzing and banning 4-6 would be tough though. How do you determine what is "too much". There are teams in the NFL that blitz more than others. Sucks we have gotten to this point in the league though. Really not a fan of Madden 11.
     
  11. pbates86

    pbates86 Walk On

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    I think the straight players far outweigh the cheesers as I haven't really had issues this year. I'm sure couple owners might feel I've run with Austin too much but I haven't...which brings me to my real point: everyone has a different definition of what cheese is.

    One of my biggest pet peeves that I see in this league is calling blitz, then taking a safety or LB to manually cover any route that would beat that man coverage like manually covering the flats or drag or crossing route. To me, I consider it cheese, but I can also see how someone else would just consider it good defense.

    When we lose to someone who cheesed we get pissed off. When we beat a cheeser its not as big a deal. I'm just afraid of guys getting reported just because they kicked another owners butt and maybe blitzed a little too much.
     
  12. Coach KO

    Coach KO Walk On

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    While I completely agree with attaining sim and realism I think people need to realize that audibles are a part of the game. Now Im not suggesting hot routing or changing plays. For instance, changing the side that you are running to. Perhaps you see the blitz and you call for more blockers. There may be times that you see a big blitz coming and you called for a play that isnt right like a play action. I will call for both Running backs to block. It may keep me from getting sacked or it may not. However, its part of the game.

    I know I may be guilty of taking to much time calling plays. However, that problem is actually a result of calling a myriad of plays. So please forgive me and please let me know if that is bothersome. My winning streak aside, never in my wildest dreams did I think I would win this many games. I got better scrimming against Gaddy, West and Win. I may have done things that were questionable in those games but those were scrimmages and they weren't done to win games. They were done to get some idea how to pass. Its finally paying dividends.

    I do believe that people need to take some time after losing to digest the game. I think there are times that in the heat of the moment people get caught up in stuff and dont think it through. Not everything deserves a complaint. I would like to think some people are reasonable. I know Win talked to me once about me running too many outside runs. He told me it bothered him. I took it to heart. I told him it was more of a counter to what he was doing. He understood. It was a mature conversation. We both had takeaways and we can make this a better league.

    As for making your own defenses. I'll be honest, I call lots of zone defenses. However, I will still hot route one guy at times to cover a receiver man to man. People tend to take advantage of those spots constantly behind the zone coverage where the linebackers dont react to. Just remember, when you do that, it opens up that area even more for another receiver. The way defenses work, and the way my defenses work is that I change it up. I tend to call lots of combo coverages. Thats my secret everyone. There isnt alot of plays like them but thats something that gives you different a look may be tougher to read. Its also why I change my defensive playbook.Its important to note that one of the things i've noticed is that some people seem to hit the same areas and the same players in each situation. So why not call a different defense and but add a variation. Also please remember, that in this version, Madden does move players all by itself. It's one thing that truly bothers me. (but thats a story for another day. One other item I would like to add to this is that sometimes the defense shows itself a little late. Meaning, if you hike it early, you are likely missing a clue to the defense. So by being patient sometimes is helpful.

    8 in the box - I've seen it a few times in my games in this league (16 games over the course of two seasons). There are ways to beat it. I hate to say it. I dont mind it. It doesnt necessarily have to make you one dimensional. I've made some of those people get out of it. However, I do agree, anything done excessively is a problem. Situationally I do not have a problem with it. I used it against Bing. He beat me each time for first downs and a touchdown. One time it was a blitz, the other a zone. (Though I was hoping he was running and I left my zone and it was an easy touchdown)

    Man to Man - I am beginning to have more success against man to man. I think its one of the reasons why I have started scoring more points. While I agree that Man to man is still tough to beat at times, there are still routes that beat it consistently which is why you need to use them. I use practice mode to try outs, double moves, ins, crossing routes, the whole shebang. So, while these routes may beat man to man, they also have some problems with zone. Hence mixing it up. Once again. I dont think people have problems moving the ball against my defense. Just take a peek against at my stats. My 7-0 record isn't as good as it looks. Some of those games are special teams and defensive scores that won me games. As for my defense, im probably close 60/40 man to man.

    I think each of my games were enjoyable. (Of course I won each of them as well.) But that also includes the games I played last season with the Redskins. I know I received a few compliments on my gameplay from some of the owners. I think it would be helpful to have positive feedback as well.
     
  13. natedawg212000

    natedawg212000 New Orleans Saints

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    Thanks for all the input. I like what you have put KO, even though I personally disagree. This is why we are letting the league as a whole post their thoughts. What we are starting to realize is the OMFL isn't for everyone. So we are going to have to dismiss owners who simply don't fit in the OMFL. Not that it makes them a cheeser, just means their style doesn't fit with what we are trying to do as a league. I am glad that you guys have enjoyed yourselves, I personally haven't enjoyed many games at all this year, it's been rare. Talking with guys who have played for a long time, guys that I know, know what cheese and sim play is. Those guys are feeling the same as I do, and thats rules are not being broken, but something isn't very straight either. I think the OMFL is just going to have to cut ties with some new and some long time owners who simply don't fit with what we want as a league. There's been too many guys who always seem to have an issue floating about them.
     
  14. Coach KO

    Coach KO Walk On

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    I hope that doesnt mean that since you disagree with me that it means I am being dismissed or that it doesn't fit with the league. In every online league I've played in, I have never had a complaint. Scratch that. I did have one. Someone complained that I didnt score a touchdown in the final minute of a game. I laid down with my receiver. He was out of timeouts. I won by 3. He thought I should have scored a touchdown. I thought it was good time management.

    Also, out of curiosity, what do you disagree with?
     
  15. pbates86

    pbates86 Walk On

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    I think the assigning a defender to play man in a zone defensive scheme is what he was likely referring to KO. I didn't even know that that was something people did until last week.
     
  16. Keller

    Keller The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

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    Coming from the xbox side of things, we suffer from a lot of the same issues as you guys. You guys run a tight ship over here, that much is clear. I'm a stickler for strict, clear rules but even so it seems like the OMFL is heading towards making things so strict that the league implodes. When you have such a rigorous rule book, in my opinion at least, the league tends to turn into a shouting match or finger pointing contest. This guy did this, that guy did that; he broke such and such rule because of XYZ circumstance. Like I said, I'm all for strict rules so that things are very clear for all involved but, at least in my opinion, I respectfully think that you should reconsider such a drastic change. I'm not directly involved, so I don't know first hand, I'm just trying to help.

    One of the key rules in any league is "mix up your playcalling." That means 8 in the box, man to man, blitz, individual hot routes, bump n run and even vanilla cover 3 are ALL covered under this rule. The same goes for offense, running sweeps/screens/slants whatever. You run certain things too many times a game, it is unsim/cheesy/cheating/unfair whatever you want to call it. Thats the TMFL rule, its a good rule and it must be enforced. If someone gets called out on it, take notice, inform them. Handle your reprimands however you best see fit. Putting a number or percentage to it however is a very slippery slope in my opinion. If you're going to regulate one thing, its only a matter of time before more things need regulated to that degree.

    Also, if the issue is defense, is there a reason you guys play on All Madden? The TMFL runs on All Pro and since the patch we've had some pretty good games. Man to man/bump n run/blitz isn't nearly as effective on All Pro as it is on All Madden. Sure other things change too and maybe thats why you've went with All Madden to begin with but I just wanted to mention that in case thats something you are willing to consider.

    I think something you guys are overlooking as well, at least in my opinion, is that defensive calls are generally not very complex when compared to offensive calls. Outside of zone blitz, and combo coverage, defenses aren't really that complex. Everyone knows what cover 1, 2 and 3 look like and everyone knows the difference between cover 2 out of nickle and cover 2 out of the 3-3-5. My point is, with defense being comparatively un-complex - don't you find it natural to want to create an extra "wrinkle" to confuse opponents? In my opinion, defense is more about disguise than anything else. Now, everything still falls under the "mix up your play calling" rule - nothing should be abused and thats hard to police/track but thats another discussion. In the TMFL at least, we don't have guys hot routing LB's to man to man or anything like that. Do we have guys using a LB shift and the trying to overload blitz? Absolutely. Do we have guys running the 1-5-5 and shifting and hot routing and stunting everywhere to create nanos? Absolutely not. Like I said, defense is about disguise and in order to be effective you have to be able to make your opponent think hook but give him a jab - know what I mean?

    Limiting audibles/hot routes, at least defensively, takes away the vast majority of owners ability to disguise things. Taking away the ability to audible/hot route will make things too vanilla... too stale... at least in my opinion. Let me ask this, whats the average score in PvP games? Granted that doesn't tell you a whole lot but it does say something about the level/effectiveness of defense being played.
     
  17. Coach KO

    Coach KO Walk On

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    Im going to give you three hints to my defensive gameplans. Its really quite simple. It still doesnt work well. I've been scored on plenty.

    1.) Check the stats of the opponent Im playing. It wont provide a great amount of information but sometimes, it does show something that sticks out a little more than usual.

    2.) Ask other people who have played the person I'm about to play. I know, perhaps this is a little childish. Im old and without the aid of actual scouting reports, I have asked how some people play. It may be accurate. It may not. I will tell you this. I have changed how I play game to game though certain things dont. I mean you are going to try and run the ball. That never changes. How you pass and who you throw to will.

    3.) mix up your plays. Im sorry but hot routing defensive guys is part of the game. As long as it is not done on a consistent basis I do not see a big deal with it. However, I know I am one of the people doing it. Would people have a problem with defensive line stunts, crashes etc?

    As for the post above regarding ALL PRO vs ALL MADDEN. IM sorry but I think ALL PRO would result in huge scoring games. I dont care how improved the AI is on defense at AP. I scored 38 points in AM. I wont lie. Im not that good on offense. There are some people who could potentially score over 50 on a regularly basis on AP.
     
  18. Keller

    Keller The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

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    It seemed to me the discussion revolved around the idea of defenses playing too well. A change would remedy that to a certain degree, thats all I was saying.
     
  19. Coach KO

    Coach KO Walk On

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    Understood. I guess I have just gotten used to All Madden.
     
  20. bigox1337

    bigox1337 Walk On

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    IMO, if a majority of owners think that defense is overpowered, then why are we letting players swap positions? A VERY simple way to go about it is drop the left or right from in front of the position name and anybody then with that position name can play that position... EXAMPLE, OLB can play only OLB, MLB can only play MLB, Ends can play left or right, DTs go only by depth chart, tackles can play left or right, center can only play center, etc etc etc, i hope yall are getting what im trying to say here.
     
  21. shiftee

    shiftee Walk On

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    The biggest point I agree with is not allowing people to hot route from zone to man as per the examples listed above. If you call a zone defense, keep it zone. I personally don't run hot routes on defense because although it's a "feature", I don't feel it provides realism on the field. The only things I ever adjust on defense are the standard functions of d-line, lb shifting and once in blue moon I show blitz.

    One big thing I like about the OMFL is how clear cut the rules are because I find a lot of leagues lack this type of structure and that's what usually leads to QBs throwing for 500 yds a game with 5 TDs and running backs rushing for 200+ yds week in and week out. Ever since the original PC days, the OMFL has always been about straight sim play. It was this reputation that led me to the madden league community on PS3. People have to remember that a league can only be as good as it's owners. Integrity and sportsmanship should take priority over adding another to the W column.
     
  22. shiftee

    shiftee Walk On

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    Another idea would be to eliminate manual control of any defensive player other than the D-Line pre-snap. Post snap you can control whoever you want, but pre-snap there's no manual player movement or manual player control of LBs or DBs. Thoughts?
     
  23. Jeremy

    Jeremy The ONLY 2 time OMFL CHampion!!!!

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    The issue is not with basic audibles but with changing the core of a play either on off or def by changing multiple route assignments or coverage assignments.

    Instead of calling a play with combo coverage guys are making their own play. On the outside it may seem harmless but it effects the AI and causes all kinds of missed assignments.
     
  24. Jeremy

    Jeremy The ONLY 2 time OMFL CHampion!!!!

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    Our position change rule was decided on prior to the start of Madden 11 and thus before the issues arose. The way our cap is setup now, I dont think we can go back on it. I do agree with you though Ox that position changes can be elimanted but the league majority wanted it.
     
  25. Coach KO

    Coach KO Walk On

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    Shiftee, Would there be a difference if someone manually covering someone after calling a zone defense? Its the same thing in my mind. Again, this isnt a constant thing. You have to limit it. But please remember, there are defenses in your playbook that are called combo coverages. Use them.
     

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