Stopping Outside Run (Counters mainly)

Discussion in 'NCAA Football' started by hammerhead1010, Oct 5, 2010.

  1. hammerhead1010

    hammerhead1010 Walk On

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    Stopping Outside Run (Counters mainly)

    Played a guy lastnight that absolutley torched me on the outside runs. In hindsight I should have probably went 3-3-5 later to add some speed on the field but didn't think of it. But it seemed that the guy pretty much ran counters the whole game and I couldn't get to him. I usered the MLB most of the time and after I saw which way he was going I tried to get outside but I would always get caught or picked up or run into other players trying to get there.

    Do you coaches have any tips on how to shut down the outside run game? Playcalls, shifts, blitzes, whatnot? (I tried corner blitzes too for the most part which were unsuccessful).
     
  2. onaradio34

    onaradio34 Tryin not to show how little I know bout anything

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    Was it weak side or strong side? Some guys like to flip counters to the strong side that are really tough to stop.
     
  3. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    1. I find that playing a safety helps a lot. Least blocked guys on the field.

    2. Blitzing the OLB between the T and G helps. Many times, he'll shoot the gap and either make a play in the backfield, or run the HB down from behind. Not nearly as effective as #1, though.

    3. Overrun the play, and force it back inside. Whatever you do, don't let the HB outside of you. Make him cut, and your pursuit guys might get there and make a play.
     
  4. H22APWRD94

    H22APWRD94 RG3 Bandwagon

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    And that really irritates the hell out of me. The purpose of a counter play is to counter your normal run direction and keep the defense off balance. Flipping the play to the strong side is kind of cheese to me. If my opponent stacks to the weak side, I have plays that will go to the strong side. But not a counter play. You already have two pulling guards, plus most likely your fullback. Now outside runs, yeah, you can stop them, just need to have guys that can tackle.

    Mike
     
  5. Papa Perry

    Papa Perry Leeroy Jenkins!!!

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    What I like to do with counters is choose a formation with a balanced front or make my line balanced then decide where I'm running the counter. You have to remember though that some plays already have the counter running to the strong side.
     
  6. onaradio34

    onaradio34 Tryin not to show how little I know bout anything

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    Excactly, turning a counter to the strong side makes the play a Power O run only the LB's freeze a moment.
     
  7. H22APWRD94

    H22APWRD94 RG3 Bandwagon

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    The difference between the power-O and counter though, is only 1 guard is pulling. Also, Papa, I understand your point there. The counter plays that go strong side do not have any pulling lineman though.

    Mike
     
  8. Cimmy24

    Cimmy24 Candy Ass Self

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    I like to run the 4-4 defense lately because of the outside run. I'll control a MLB and read the guard. It's tough to master in a video game...but you have to "feel the guard". Toss plays are obvious, counters not so much. I played LB in highschool and this was preached to me on how to stop the run. It worked well and I have tried to apply it here, and it has gotten better. You kinda have to "read the flow"...
     
  9. Full Moon Fever

    Full Moon Fever Champion of Standards

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    Yeah when a team starts hurting me with those, I like to go to the 4-4 and use the FS. Sometimes you can run that alley and cut them off or at least turn it back inside to the rest of your defense. Of course, you have to be careful about coverage responsibilities too.
     
  10. shibdib

    shibdib In Nacho We Trust

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    I always thought some1 who jus used a speedback and ran outside all game was cheese to begin with, jus cause the defense is handicapped when it comes to defending it.
     
  11. Mogriffjr

    Mogriffjr Walk On

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    It's a weird thing. Most teams wouldn't use their speed back inside a ton because you want your speedster in space and getting him outside where he's gonna get an advantage is best.

    It is quite open running outside but then you just have to gamble a bit IMO and play to the side where the blocker lie. Most guys tip off their runs anyways. As far as counters go I usually try to cut those off by clicking onto a linemen but that's a tough skill to acquire.
     
  12. hammerhead1010

    hammerhead1010 Walk On

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    Thanks guys. I was using primarily the MLB when in 4-3. I went 4-4 some and used the FS, pinched the line, spread the LB's but still have very little success. It might also be worth mentioning that this was in a crappy team dynasty (I had army) and his back happened to be an SEC transfer so there was somewhat of a talent discrepancy. Oh well I'll try to work these tips in next time I face the counter a lot.
     
  13. DirtycashDylan

    DirtycashDylan I came here to scheme and chew bubblegum...

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    Are you talking about ASU? Against me, he almost exclusively ran Power runs and I couldn't stop it because, well, his fatties were much better than mine.

    Like what was said before, you want to play the toss from the outside in. Your MLB is slow I'm sure so use your SS and watch the play. If you see toss, start strafing/sprinting to that side. Also, some users will make you pay if you overpursue.

    If your opponent likes to go outside, take that away and make him go inside and take him out of his comfort zone.
     
  14. hammerhead1010

    hammerhead1010 Walk On

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    Yea D, ud be right. His HB is a beast tho. Id say he was 50 counter 50 power but they were all outside and I could never get there. Check out the vid on dynasty wire last week where I finally did get out there but he hurdles my MLB and goes on for a TD.
     
  15. Hellisan

    Hellisan Schemin 'em up

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    I think people who constantly switch players are lame.
     
  16. Mogriffjr

    Mogriffjr Walk On

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    Whatcha mean? It's after the snap lol. I'm not gonna let u sit there and gain 5-6 yards a pop if I can nail ya ass with a DE or LB who's in the area.
     
  17. Hellisan

    Hellisan Schemin 'em up

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    Just my opinion, I try to make a play with the player I choose. I notice some people who as soon as it's a pass change players, maybe they think they suck in coverage or something, to me that's just not cool though, I dunno.... Just my opnion.

    If I am nowhere near the play or whatever, I will switch. But I never imediately switch as soon as the ball is snapped.
     
  18. carolinaeasy

    carolinaeasy Walk On

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    Just want to throw my two cents in here. The purpose of the counter varies from offense to offense. But bottom line is the counter is a misdirection play. You can run a counter at someone week or strong side and it would not be considered cheese. What is cheese is running the counter "exclusively" and not mixing in zones, tosses, or other runs that feature quick steps directly towards the play side.
     
  19. H22APWRD94

    H22APWRD94 RG3 Bandwagon

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    I agree with that. If you are mixing it up well, I have no problem with it. I guess my biggest problem with the counter is when people go strong side with it. It is nearly unstoppable. Way too many blockers out in front, especially out of an I formation. Throw in a power back that runs through a tackle or two, and it is an automatic 6 points.

    Mike
     
  20. H22APWRD94

    H22APWRD94 RG3 Bandwagon

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    Helli, I play with the MLB almost exclusively. I will switch during play, but very rarely. I am usually in the area I need to be with my MLB.

    In relation to DCD's post, it would be even better if EA finally wrote this game as a strong side/weak side defense. So my SAM backer and SS are on the strong side of the formation like they are supposed to be. I would love to be able to recruit a SAM backer that is different from my WILL backer because he should be. I would not mind having a WILL backer cover a slot receiver every once in a while. But when I can't get that matchup because the defensive formations/matchups don't recognize strong/weak, I don't leave my 4-3 in against 3WR sets.

    Mike
     
  21. DirtycashDylan

    DirtycashDylan I came here to scheme and chew bubblegum...

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    Totally agree with Sam and Will. It'd also be nice to have a Field and Boundary Corner or atleast be able to set your matchups before hand where your best CB will always be on their best Wr.
     
  22. nikpin

    nikpin Universitas Brunensis

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    If I remember correctly last gen Madden did have where you could lock a corner on a man.

    Stopping outside runs in difficult for a number of reasons but another I haven't seen mentioned is your defense plays the hole where the ball should be ran not the RB on a lot of plays. This leads to the DE and OLB's not contain the outside at all. Not to mention blocks are not shed like they should be and it's way to easy to get linemen on OLB in space.
     
  23. H22APWRD94

    H22APWRD94 RG3 Bandwagon

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    Those are very good points. You do see a lot of defenders playing the hole, not the ball carrier. and I would be stripped of a jersey for breaking contain as many times as my guys do in this game.

    Mike
     
  24. Bl0ndeRedHead

    Bl0ndeRedHead Official TSO Pothead

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    I would hope you didn't think I was cheesing man, as when I do run counters it's about 99% to the weak side...I love setting them up by pounding the power I to the strong side and doing the weak counter. But I will say there were several times I ran through arm tackles where you should have had me in the backfield, but my HB is too good I think.

    Dylan kinda summed it up for me really, I run based on the defense. Against Dylan, I could just run right off tackle or an iso and get 5+ yards every time, so no need to use counters. If you play me well against the run, I'm gonna roll up my sleeves and figure out a way to run it.
     
  25. hammerhead1010

    hammerhead1010 Walk On

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    Not calling it cheese deaf, just noticing weaknesses in my game (I've given up WAY too many rushing yards against all users in H4Y) and looking for ways to improve my game. I didn't know if some vets had specific playcall or blitz's, or packages that could help contain.

    Most of the time I just couldn't get my guy outside to contain, and when I did your RB made a heck of a play. I wish I could post that vid where you hurdled my MLB. I was like yes I finally contained it then boom the hurdle, and a broken arm tackle and he was off again for another 6 :eek:.
     

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