Sub Packages??

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by Hokie Effect, Dec 2, 2009.

  1. Hokie Effect

    Hokie Effect Whats a Hokie?

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    Sub Packages??

    Is there any restriction on any of the built in sub packages? There isn't any listed in our league description that I am aware of. There was a discussion about it in the main forum. Especially about the package with both RB's in the backfield. I personally use this package at times as do most teams in "real life", hence the reason for putting it in the game. Just want to clarify before I start playing user games before anyone cries foul. I will say that if you do restrict that package, there may be discussion on restricting others. I know this is a sim league, but lets not get too crazy with tick for tack rules.
     
  2. killajo90405

    killajo90405 Walk On

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    I think this is where "use discretion" comes into play.

    I wouldn't use a PA FB Flat play when I have a 2 HB package because I am fully aware that the game can't account for the speed vs. a LB after the fake. Think about how much it would suck to have a play like this burn you on a 3rd down....
     
  3. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    Killa answers this perfectly. Here's how I feel, and let's feel free to discuss this because I'd like your input as well.

    HB's should not be subbed in at FB in power running formations (I form, strong, weak, etc). This creates an unfair speed advantage for the offense that the defensive AI can't counter. While it does happen in real life, it isn't programmed correctly in the game.

    So, you shouldn't be subbing your HB to FB in a power formation period. I'm not going to budge on that one. There's multiple reasons, one is it creates a speed advantage for the offense and two, because there's new players we've never heard of every year, it's impossible for the defense to know that the HB is subbed in at FB.

    (I think EA could truly rectify this by at the play call screen instead of showing the package the offense is in, they should list out each skill player individually. Then the defense would know what the offense has on the field before picking it's play and could prepare appropriately.)

    With all that said, you MAY use dual HBs in split formations, i.e. shotgun and pro spread sets, basically throwing formations but please, try to keep this to a minimum. A general rule at TF is that pass plays are suppose to target WR's not HB's.

    Other offensive sub packages are allowed. However, I'd really like the league input on this. For instance, there's a lot of times I'd love to go into the wildcat with Demps at QB but I don't do it because I don't want it to be too cheesy. What do you guys think on this topic?
     
  4. Hokie Effect

    Hokie Effect Whats a Hokie?

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    Understood. Only use 2 RB package in split sets.

    My feeling on RB sub for QB is special sets i.e. Wildcat. I think its all good if you use that set sparingly. Its all bout variety in playcalling. We are suppose to be balanced as possible in play seclection varying formations and plays. So if someone runs the wildcat over and over its not sim (according to Tradition rules), even if the D can't stop it. It is the same reasoning behind exploiting the cpu AI with the RB sub for FB running flat patterns.
     
  5. LeGeNd RiPs

    LeGeNd RiPs Is it football season yet?

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    I think that certain sub formations should be permissable at certain times. Like, if a team has a pocket passing qb and a rushing qb and they want to run the option, then it should be ok to sub in your backup qb. Other formation subs should be permissable too. For instance: if you're in a 3rd and long and you want to sub your rb to slot reciever or to sub your #1 wideout to the slot, this should be fine. I believe you should be allowed to try and get mismatches with these features, otherwise it sort of defeats the purpose of having them and it makes the game less strategy based and more luck based. I also believe that you should be allowed to use wildcat in certain situations also. I just want the games to be realistic and competitive, thats what I'm here for.
     
  6. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    I agree with what's been said so far. No HBs in power formations, especially if you call plays to throw it to the "FB."

    I have no problems with the wildcat or any formations that have a wildcat "package" (FU and MSU have 2 formations that can put a HB behind the C). Again, don't make the wildcat your main running formation.

    There's 1 thing that hasn't been mentioned, but I think this might be explicitly mentioned in the rules. On defense, the packages that puts LBs in place of the DL shouldn't be allowed since this game can't account for the fact that my O-lineman has 100 lbs on your LB and should be able to push him around. Instead, the LB's speed will be all that matters and he'll get by the O-line too often.

    EDIT:
    I just read Legend's post. We had a big discussion about subbing fast QBs in some formations. Yes this is done in real life. The problem is that in this game, unlike in real life, the D can't see which QB is in the game until it's too late to change your personnel. If I want to call a 4-4 or 5-2 with your fast guy in the game, I can't do that in this game since I can't actually see him jogging in from the sidelines. I think we decided to have the user announce before the game which personnel situations would have the other QB (IE. 2TE, 2 WR, 1 RB has my fast QB).
     
  7. LeGeNd RiPs

    LeGeNd RiPs Is it football season yet?

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    Yea. I agree with that, and it says that in the rules, but I think if you recruit a very good pass rushing d end, then you shouldn't have to bench him because his speed is "too fast"! I think thats unfair.
     
  8. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    I don't think there are any speed restrictions on DEs. If you have a fast DE, play him. There are restrictions on subbing fast non-DEs to the DE position. There are also restrictions on changing the position of a fast non-DE to be a DE during position changes. I don't, however, think that there are any restrictions on the speed of guys who are actually DEs.
     
  9. LeGeNd RiPs

    LeGeNd RiPs Is it football season yet?

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    I thought there were. Maybe I read it wrong.
     
  10. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    Legend - Jello is correct. Whoever you recruit at their position is allowed to play their natural position. So if you can land a fast DE, he is allowed to play his position.

    The position restrictions are setup for position changes in the offseason and are mainly intact to prohibit people from switching their 90+ spd HB who's 4 on the depth chart to DE or things of that nature.
     
  11. LeGeNd RiPs

    LeGeNd RiPs Is it football season yet?

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    Oh. good. I was just wondering because i have had a 90 speed DE before.
     
  12. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    This is a tough one because like we said, you can't tell when he's on the field or not. I know LSU does it in real life with Russell Shephard, but in real life you can see him jog out into the huddle, in the game you can't. You can use your fast QB, but the general guideline TF wide is that it needs to be for a series and not just one play.

    Everything you mention here is allowed within reason. For instance, subbing your #1 WR to slot all game is frowned upon. Reason being, there's no way for the defense to react. I can't matchup my #1 CB on the guy and rotate my #3 CB out to the flanker. It's an advantage that EA gave the offense without providing the defense a way to counter it. In Madden, you can match your CBs up to WRs. If they'd implement this into NCAA this wouldn't be an issue at all.
     
  13. LeGeNd RiPs

    LeGeNd RiPs Is it football season yet?

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    The main reason its not implemented is just for mismatches.
     
  14. whygodwhy1111

    whygodwhy1111 Walk On

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    Limitation on fleXbox One RB swapping? just wondering.

    I don't really mind if someone uses the wild cat on me with an HB at QB. Its obvious when it is comming unless they use one of the WR at qb packages where it looks like 2rb 2 wr 1 TE. If someone can get a good Passer that is a legit #1 or #2 at WR or HB, I think they should be able to use them in the wildcat for around 3 series a game (9 or so plays).

    It is kind of annoying to not know if I am facing a fast or slow QB. especially when I do not have to respect the pass on the fast QB. But I can usually aubile or hotroute a spy so its not a big issue for me.

    (I am not going after fast qbs and I do not have wildcat in my playbook so I am not pushing to use any of this myself)
     
  15. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    The RB swapping in the fleXbox One is fine. I don't know that anybody has that playbook though.
     

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