TCCT TW golf fix show

Discussion in 'Archive' started by Danthraxxx, Apr 1, 2012.

  1. Danthraxxx

    Danthraxxx Walk On

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    Hey guys this your resident Bushwood TSO member & hack TW golfer ( sometimes real life hack ) Danthraxxx here, hoping to shed some light to some things for the upcoming TW TCCT season. If you grabbed TW and are struggling this is the place where myself and some of my fellow TCCT vets / experts will explain some of the basic & more intricate parts of TW golf.

    Quick background on me, been playing EA golf series since sega when it was PGA Tour golf & I wanna think Davis Love III was on the cover ? In my non TSO life ( real life I suppose’ ) I have been playing for almost a decade, went from shooting 120‘s to 90‘s and broken 90 a few times, and have competed on the golf channel amateur tour, and have played over 40 different golf courses in Ohio, IN, KY, & Il. I have some decent golf knowledge to share here through my playing days and countless lessons I have taken. Most of this will be for TW purpose & some in real life, but by no means am I a club pro in RL ;)

    So with this being said I feel I need to give some of my newer TSO TW brothers some of the help that some of my TSO FIFA brothers gave me, which is some basic golf knowledge & some correlation with the sticks. I will edit this main post to add to the knowledge base, in hope to keep this neat & clean.

    TW golf this year is pretty darn realistic IMO, so I will start off with the 2 main principles of ball flight. I will add some more shot types and suggestions during the week, likely every 48-72 hrs until we have covered about everything possible, hopefully this will help level the playing field for some of our newer members.

    Any feedback, questions, or calling me out for not knowing what I am talking about is welcome via PM in hope to keep this thread from going haywire



    Episode 1 Shot Shape :


    During a round of golf there are certain times when being able to control the shape and flight of the ball and can save you shots. Rather like a pool player being able to control the white ball to keep a break going, if a golfer can learn to shape the ball at will it makes scoring easier. In TW this is a key part of scoring IMO. I stated in a prior post that in the past playing TW I have played really fast , hit a big drive, hurry up hit iron shot right at the flag , putt for birdie , rinse & repeat. In TW 13’ this is not very successful , and if you don’t believe me go play an offline round with the caddie on and see all of the creative & interesting shot suggestions it makes.The caddie suggestions seem to work much better than hitting every shot straight as possible. Suggestions the caddie feature makes are very rarely straight, and to me this is the most “sim” ( man we over use that word at TSO a bunch ) aspect of TW this year. For those that have never played or played seriously in real life hitting a golf ball straight is almost impossible , let alone frequently repeatable. Factors such as the wind, ball being dirty or scuffed, to a clubface being dirty or even the lie on the ground can cause a ball to do crazy things.

    First we will start with the super basic terms/fundamentals. For reference I am setting all of these shots up as a righty, if your player is a lefty the terms mean the same thing the direction is just the opposite is all.

    Flight path :

    This is just what it says, the path the ball takes to get from point A to point B. Hitting the ball straight can be done, but there are advantages to hitting it left or right.

    Draw:

    drawshot.jpg
    A “Draw” is a ball flight where the ball goes from right to left. The advantages of this are typically longer distance through the air & more roll . I will refrain from explaining physics as it is not necessary, and frankly I am not a physics expert, just trust me here guys. A draw is a good way to get more distance and roll , a draw also tends to be less “manhandled” by a left to right wind.This shot also can help to hit the ball lower in RL , for TW that seems to be irrelevant in my testing so far.

    Fade:

    power-fade(1).jpg

    This is not the fade you get from the barber, but it can help tidy up your score card just like a neckline ;) A “fade” break from left to right, and typically has a higher ceiling during flight path. This shot is good for controlling distance & stopping a ball when landing, as it does not tend to roll like the before mentioned draw. This can be used to hit a tight fairway, or to get an iron shot to land softly on a green. One thing of note with the fade , when hitting it with a stiff wind the wind can really make this shot come up short, or even long, so be careful when its 9-14mph in any direction. This is caused by the “fade” having considerably more spin on the ball than a draw.

    How to do these in TW... this is done be opening / closing your stance in the pre-shot aim period. If that is unclear please review the manual in game.

    Episode 2 Getting out of the :doodie: :

    Hitting from the rough—whether heavy and thick or light and fluffy can be an issue for sure and can cause some anxiety during the round. It is not hard to get out of the rough in TW13 , it just takes a bit of discretion and knowing what adjustments to make.

    The first thing on the agenda is to forget about how you got in the rough, but I will handle that during the mental game aspect later on. We need to focus on how we are getting out of the rough. The first two things you should consider are your lie, and where your next shot can be aimed towards, this bodes true for any kind of rough in ( long rough, short, straw, etc.) TW13 as well. In TW it seems that the ball positioning icon on the right only shows how the ball has sunk or is sitting vertically, it does not show side slope. If the ball is on a side slope above your feet that ball will tend to go left, and below your feet has the opposite effect and will go right. Thankfully in TW it is not nearly as drastic as real life, but it is wise to account for all the same. With the limited rounds I have played in TW 13 I have found adjusting 5-10 yards in either direction to be a good rule of thumb. Next you should consider how deep you are in the rough. The light rough will take about 5-10% off of normal club length , and deeper rough 11-20% , depending on the club in hand. The more lofted the club the less of impact here , as the higher lofted clubs (7iron - wedges ) have a sharper loft , which cuts through the rough better than a flatter club. The hybrid clubs are a bit of the exception here in that regard, and are really nice to get out if you need long distance, as they seem to be effected only 50% of the distances I mentioned above compared to irons. Now in all fairness I have yet to play more than 3 rounds with my 7 hybrid since adding it to the bag so I am not sure if that bodes same for its distances, but in theory it should be similar. Now I have debated as to if ball impact position ( red crosshair on the right ) really matters in TW in regards to rough, and with the hybrids it seems you can hit more in center of the ball as well as get more carry when hitting lower vs iron shots. My rule of thumb for this in regards to impact area is mostly about the distance and club in hand, with wedges or short irons (7-9) I tend to hit slightly below the center of the ball to ensure I get up and out of the rough, and that it gets proper elevation. With the hybrids I do also like to hit more towards the bottom of the impact indicator if the green is in play, as the hybrids tend to land softer on the green ( even from 200yrds plus) . You should never want to hit on the top off the ball in this icon, as that will cause a topped shot.

    Risk :eek: vs Reward:trophy: from the long stuff

    Once you have assed the lie situation the next step is to plot the target area. I tend to look for the worst case scenario and try to avoid that, you have already hit one bad shot prior, no need to compound the issue. If there is a hazard or a treacherous bunker I usually try to avoid flight path near them, in case I do not get a clean hit from the rough. Next I consider if the green is applicable, if so I look for a landing spot 3-10 yards short of where I want to putt from, again green size is a factor so use your best judgement here. A ball struck from the rough with an iron will not be able to spin as well when compared to the fairway, so when it lands it will roll more ( hybrids if lofted can at times avoid this a bit ) so you would hate to hit to it at the flag, the ball releases and rolls way past, now you end up with a 48ft uphill putt :(

    Finally the execution of the shot, I have found when hitting from the shit , or a trap , or anywhere undesirable a practice shot taken ( click down on left stick for xbox ) or 2, or 3 or 4 is a good idea. It helps with the anxiety and confidence prior to the shot. The final major factor here is your CAG, the recovery attribute goes a long way, so build that up too. Nobody can be in the fairway all the time, except the guy with the fastest golf cart ;)



    Episode 3# sand game coming soon....

    Episode #4 “a new hope” short game ( shots 120yrs or less from green )

    Episode #5 putting

    Episode # 6 course management (how to move around the hole for best scoring)

    Episode # 7 mental game
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2012
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  2. StormJr

    StormJr Walk On

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    Good stuff!
     
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  3. stufat

    stufat Walk On

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    looking forward to - Episode # 7 mental game as i completely agree, golf is a mental game!!
     
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  4. Cimmy24

    Cimmy24 Candy Ass Self

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    Danthraxxx - Ever read Harvey Penick's "Little Red Book"? That book, along with golf coaches and family, taught me what I know of golf. The book itself has lessons on the actual physical stroke itself, but what it really helped me with was the mental aspect of the game.

    I'm by no means a great golfer, just in the past couple of years I've broken into the 90s, but it has helped me a ton. I used to get frustrated with every shot that wasn't perfect. Without intruding on your thing you have here because I think this is great, to foreshadow, that book is great.
     
  5. Danthraxxx

    Danthraxxx Walk On

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    No I have not read that one , aside of actual lessons the two best things I have read/seen are : Secrets of the short game (DVD) by Phil , and Golf is a Mental game by Dr. Bob Rotella (may be spelled wrong). Anything by Dave Pelz is good also IMO but he gets a bit long winded .
     
  6. Danthraxxx

    Danthraxxx Walk On

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    there will be no update today as prior stated, sorry about that fellas but school is kicking my butt this week :(

    be back on track tomorrow (y)
     
  7. BlyGilmore

    BlyGilmore It's All In The Hips!

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    not sure if you're taking requests but i'd love to see a chapter on dealing with changes in elevation and how that impacts club selection.

    personally, seems any time i have a drastic change in elevation, if I go up a club I bomb it past the green, if I stay still I shoot it way short.
     
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  8. SkinniePost

    SkinniePost Walk On

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    If Dan doesn't get to that Bly... I can explain elevation changes and how different clubs are affected by it. Basically, the higher the loft on the club, the less it is affected by an elevated green, and the opposite for a green below your lie. It has to do with flight trajectory... Here is a basic graphic I made a while back, and yes I know that it is pretty crappy, haha

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Vlad

    Vlad Inaugural Masters Champion

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    Autocad?
     
  10. SkinniePost

    SkinniePost Walk On

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    Yep, I did it at work a couple of years ago, instead of drawing Construction Drawings for a 5 million dollar residence...
     
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  11. Keller

    Keller The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

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    So let me get this straight.... for a 60 degree wedge, lets say my max distance is what... 100 yards, just for simplicity? If I hit to a hole that is 100 yards out but 60ft down, I'm still going to hit 100 yards?

    This changes things a bit for me - guess I never really thought about things in this much detail.
     
  12. SkinniePost

    SkinniePost Walk On

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    Not quite Keller, I told you the graphic was sort of ass... It will go a little farther that much downhill, but not as much as say a 9I. The extra distance to a downhill green increases as you move up towards your woods. The graphic is not totally accurate, but the concept is there ;)

    But yes a 60 degree wedge does descend on a very vertical path, that is why is sticks to the green so well.
     
  13. Vlad

    Vlad Inaugural Masters Champion

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    This is also why the shorter the clubs - the bigger the effect the wind will cause on your shots
     
  14. Keller

    Keller The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

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    Not always - shots have less time to be affected by the wind in some cases as well.
     
  15. SkinniePost

    SkinniePost Walk On

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    The wind effect in this game is somewhat unrealistic... To put it simply. The ball is only subject to two factors, length of time in the air and speed of travel prior to landing. The wind in the game is constant, and does not change the closer you get to the ground... Unlike real life. So the only reason a punch shot for example is not moved as much is due to the fact that it still has a high rate of travel when it first hits the ground and the wind effect is stopped.

    Keller is also correct, wedges actually move less right and left than a 5I, etc... And it has to do with the time of flight.
     
  16. Vlad

    Vlad Inaugural Masters Champion

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    Boy you and StormJr need to get together sometime
     
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  17. StormJr

    StormJr Walk On

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    Yep, on a windy day, not only will the direction of winds change a lot around a golf course, but the winds could vary by as much as 20-30 mph from tee box to the apex of the ball flight.

    But I can understand the limitations of game development. That would be pretty complex.
     
  18. SkinniePost

    SkinniePost Walk On

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    A two page long post could be written about wind and elevation in this game ;)

    And be glad the club tuner is gone, since that made it even crazier... Due to the fact you could change the loft and ball spin for your clubs, and therefore time of flight and ball speed prior to landing. The club tuner opened up infinite possibilities. Also, a funny and sort of sad side story... A couple of years ago over a long Thanksgiving break, I actually tried to backwards engineer the physics used in this game using relative height, time of flight and distance traveled... Only to fail due to lack of variables I could actually pull out of the game. But it was fun trying :D
     
  19. Vlad

    Vlad Inaugural Masters Champion

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    What is amazing to me is with amount of time and effort people put in stuff like that humanity still doesn't have cure for cancer !!! Maybe that's the solution get gamers together and let them fix whatever needs fixing.

    Btw geek lol !
     
  20. Keller

    Keller The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

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    Make a terribly flawed game about curing cancer. Gamers will be up in arms, creating 3D diagrams and scatter plots about why the developer is wrong and how to improve etc etc. They'll come out of the wood work and eventually, voila, gamers cure cancer.
     
  21. Danthraxxx

    Danthraxxx Walk On

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    orignal post updated (y)
     
  22. CapEm16

    CapEm16 Walk On

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    Couple hints to consider regarding elevation changes. TW 13, like others in the past all have the same general mathematics behind the scenes. In my opinion Links on the PC had it figured out to a more refined science, but TW keeps it simple, so here is what I do.

    For every 3ft of elevation, either up or down, add/subtract a yard of distance for your shot. IE) 140yds to the pin, 12ft uphill, I will add 4yds and aim for 144yds and about the same for down hill shots.

    That said, you need to take into consider the angle of attack, especially playing on tournament settings (although this years Tiger the greens don't play as rock hard as in the past). Using the same 12ft uphill example, instead of just moving your marker to 144 yards, you may move it to 146yds and move the ball up in your stance to hit a higher trajectory shot, which will help the ball attack the green at a steeper angle, therefore landing softer. Careful when adjusting lofts when hitting into an uphill slope on the green, where you may not get the necessary roll out to the hole.

    I generally do not mess with downhill shots.
     
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  23. Vlad

    Vlad Inaugural Masters Champion

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    Phew I thought I'm imagining this :)

    Are you also noticing that downwind helps the carry and roll much more then previous years?! I'm overshooting greens a lot

    On somewhat related note I just love what they did with the flight mechanics when hitting woods
     
  24. Jon Carroll

    Jon Carroll Walk On

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    Im a little sad though with this. Especially on Augusta. Last year it was perfect. You could really use the countours (on tournament setup) to work the ball around the greens with your approach shots. It seems you can't really do that this year. :(
     
  25. Vlad

    Vlad Inaugural Masters Champion

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    you can you just have to setup your shot different.it is just easier to get closer,especially on long shots

    Funny last year with all the time off we had before round 4 I played it about 30 times,and was trying to do exactly the same shot Louie put on the 2nd hole yesterday and it actually worked.Start as far left as I can,fade it to the center of the green and let it catch the slope and feeds towards the hole.This year is different story as I'm scared to mess with draws/fades yet :)
     
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