the dreaded Balls and Strikes discussion

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by PepperNY, Feb 20, 2011.

  1. PepperNY

    PepperNY Fear the Spear

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    I want to go ahead and get this out of the way way before any problems arise and well before the new game even releases. This is baseball and I know last years league had a 75% strike rule which I am firmly against. Throwing balls is a part of baseball and we must all learn patience at the plate and not swing at every pitch. With that being said in real baseball you dont see any pitcher throwing a ton of balls to start out an at bat to get the batter to chase. You should at least be attempting to throw somewhere near the strikezone whhether its nibbling at the corners or whatnot and by all means when you get someone down in the count then trying to get them to chase and to me thats baseball.

    What I dont want to see are people throwing 2 inches off the plate the entire game and not coming anywhere close to the strikezone until someone takes 2 or 3 pitches where you are now down 2 or 3 balls in the count. Lets realize this is a videogame and were all out to have fun and we want to do things the right way.

    I am not calling anyone out in this post but I wanted to start an open discussion as long as we can keep it civil. I'd like to hear what everyones thoughts are when it comes to Balls and Strikes.
     
  2. _MG_

    _MG_ Watching Folks Swim

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    I agree, however sometimes with lag or stamina your pitcher might be a little wilder than expected. I think 75% is a little high, maybe 60% or 65% because throwing 3 out of every 4 balls strikes is too much imo.
     
  3. PepperNY

    PepperNY Fear the Spear

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    my goal is to not have a rule on balls and strikes at all because I dont want us to get into a game and hear someone pause and say "your breaking the rule by not throwing strikes" etc. I just want people to play the game the way its meant to be played and not have someone throwing 2 inches off the ground all game long just because people keep chasing after it.
     
  4. Bl0ndeRedHead

    Bl0ndeRedHead Official TSO Pothead

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    Ya I think the locations are pitch relative as well. Sliders and curves should not be expected to be over the middle of the zone, but fastballs should. I'm not going to nibble the corners with heaters and don't expect my opponent to. I would like there not to be a rule, but I think the only way we'll find out if that will work is once we start playing games
     
  5. PepperNY

    PepperNY Fear the Spear

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    this isnt really a question of pitch/zone location. I dont expect anyone to throw it right down the middle. Mix up your pitches/location, nibbe for conrers but at least attempt to throw it in the strikezone. If you miss the zone no big deal. I think most of us can judge when you missed your spot and when its intentionally being done. Again I am not telling you guys not to throw balls, throwing balls and trying to make people chase is a part of baseball but you shouldnt be starting off an at bat trying to get people to chase junk.
     
  6. G_T_G

    G_T_G BEAR DOWN

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    Think the best way to handle this is to just play and if their is abuse in the pitching I think the bad apples will stick out.

    As long as its not like blatantly overused I don't see an issue with throwing a chase pitch.
     
  7. OhDaesu19

    OhDaesu19 Walk On

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    In MLB 11 they have added 20 new hitting views and 2 new pitching views plus any of the stadium broadcast cameras can be used online. This should help greatly with pitch recognition. Also if need be you could set the pitch speed a notch or two lower.
     
  8. PepperNY

    PepperNY Fear the Spear

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    you are correct on that, I'm just curious what others think. Like I said above I am against having a steadfast rule on balls and strikes but the junkball pitchers will take advantage of this but they will also stick out like a sore thumb.
     
  9. klaximilian

    klaximilian Walk On

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    I'm not sure if you meant it the way you said it, but I for one will not throw a heater right down the pipe. I will put up alot of strikes on the corners, and that's the way I've always been taught how to pitch and approach each AB. Believe me, corner pitches are hittable, but they are much harder to hit as they are to locate as the pitcher. I expect no one to have to live in the middle of the plate. Use the entire zone.

    As for curveballs, sliders, etc...yes some of them absolutely should be out of the zone, but I think the count will dictate that mostly. If I have throw a 0-2 curve, chances are it will be out of the zone. I might keep it in the zone for surprise effect every now and then, but typically an 0-2 count is pitch out of the zone. If it were a 2-2 curveball, I might be a little more inclined to throw a curve for a strike (or at least attempt to).

    Here is my issue with a strict 70/30 rule. It doesn't allow our pitchers the freedom to work around the zone, and instead it makes them throw a fat strike when they don't want to. Lets face it, this is simulation baseball. We know there will be balls, so we leave that up to the batters and pitchers to lay off bad pitches and nibble around the zone as needed. I think there is a very big difference in someone who threw 50% strikes, but constantly was near the zone and just happened to miss, and a guy who threw 50% strikes with almost every ball being way out of the zone.

    You can throw a junk ball here and there, but if you use it as your means to get ahead in the count every time, I'm not ok with that.
     
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  10. PepperNY

    PepperNY Fear the Spear

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    I think Scikotic just summed it up perfectly. Completely agree with everything you just said
     
  11. Bl0ndeRedHead

    Bl0ndeRedHead Official TSO Pothead

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    Yup. Now we'll just have to see if people bitch when they lose because "he never pitched over the plate!" or accept the fact you couldn't hit him and he was better than you
     
  12. klaximilian

    klaximilian Walk On

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    Well, I hope you sincerely weren't expecting meatballs down the plate.

    And actually, I think when you look at a post-swing analysis, if its right over they plate the game refers to it as a "meatball" too. Lol...
     
  13. Bl0ndeRedHead

    Bl0ndeRedHead Official TSO Pothead

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    Trust me I'm not. Im on your page, I'm pretty sure Pepper was calling ME out in the OP lol
     
  14. Townie33

    Townie33 Walk On

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    I am NOT here for any forum DRAMA. That has never been me. But, this forum IS about me and my pitching in a game this morning with Pepp. After the game we discussed on YIM and I suggested the forum. (I do appreciate not being called out, but no big deal here.)

    I will say this upfront. I agree the game is about sim. I love the fact the game is about sim. I am all for sim. I think here is where my version and some may vary.

    In my version I throw pitch one (slow changeup low and away) and you chase. I throw pitch two (slow changeup) and you chase. Why would I change this pattern if you are going to continually chase bad pitches? On the other hand if you let bad pitches go for balls either A) you walk B) you will get great pitches to hit because the pitcher is always behind in the count and has to bring some "meat" at you. This is what I love about this game! The give/take between pitcher and hitter. The learning that goes on within the game; the little guessing game between opponents.

    Granted, I probably take more pitches than the average guy. I know I take more called 3rd strikes than the average guy. (I know my old coach didn't really appreciate that.) I just don't understand why guys can't take bad pitches??? Is swinging the lumber that tough to lay off? It's part of the game. (for those that have played it)
     
  15. PepperNY

    PepperNY Fear the Spear

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    lol not at all. Just wanted to get a discussion on this topic before we run into potential problems. Its the biggest issue in baseball leagues.
     
  16. klaximilian

    klaximilian Walk On

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    He wasn't calling you out. This is just a discussion we had regarding balls/strikes because we know there will be someone who wants to play in such a way that everyone will be irritated and complain. We know most of you guys have either played baseball or watch it, so our expectations really shouldn't even have to be said.

    With that said, you owe me a game, Sir. :)
     
  17. Maximus21

    Maximus21 BCS Chaos - Syracuse

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    I agree that you have to allow pitchers the ability to throw balls when we see fit, especially when ahead in the count. Like you guys have said it should not be abused to the point where almost every pitch is a ball or just throwing it way outside the zone. Putting a set number on it probably isn't the best idea since I don't want to be forced to throw certain pitches to hit a specific percentage. Also, it is the batter's responsibility to know the strike zone and not swing at every pitch, but there has to be a balance. It's a game and having fun should be the first priority.
     
  18. Townie33

    Townie33 Walk On

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    Am online and ready!
     
  19. G_T_G

    G_T_G BEAR DOWN

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    No offense but that sounds like a typical argument from someone who throws a lot of garbage.

    "If its a ball why swing?" "Its the batters fault for swinging not mine!" "Why would I change if it works?"

    Well, I see where you are coming from on some points and I am not accusing you of anything I am sure you are pretty sim. But the problem with this is that the lag over the internet causes reaction time problems with reading pitches so if the majority of pitches are balls its pretty safe to say that the batter is going to swing anyways at most of them unless its like coming at their head.

    Correct me if I am wrong or if I am missing something.
     
  20. PepperNY

    PepperNY Fear the Spear

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    Ok guys lets get back to a constructive conversation about this. Townie, while I dont condone your pitching style or philosophy this is not directed at you. This is a general discussion on what everyones opinion is on the subject. For the most part I think everyone knows what is acceptable and what is not. My thoughts on the subject is unless you have someone down to 2 strikes you shouldnt be aiming way out of the strikezone to get someone to chase a pitch. If you aim for your spot and you miss and people swing so be it.
     
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  21. klaximilian

    klaximilian Walk On

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    Sorry, but to me this is pretty much is the equivalent of someone running the same play repeatedly in Madden until you prove the play can be stopped. That doesn't and would never fly in a sim Madden league. Townie, you seem like a really cool dude so I hope you don't take any of this to heart, but we really are pushing for sim-style play and what you are describing at this time is something we are very cautious about letting into TBL.

    Just like batters need to learn how to be patient and work the count, I expect pitchers to show some effort to keep the ball around the zone instead of throwing junk balls the entire game because they notice that the batter can't lay off of them. I understand the need to pitch around certain batters in certain situations, and thats perfectly fine. But to address every batter like this will not work, plain and simple. I want realistic play from all parties, myself included.

    I should also mention that aside from knuckleballers, does anyone else really disagree that at least 50% of your pitches should be fastballs? In my honest opinion, thats a very generous amount of junk to allow a pitcher.

    thoughts?
     
  22. _MG_

    _MG_ Watching Folks Swim

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    I agree 100% on this. If you screw up the meter or it lags and you accidentally throw it away then fine, but doing it every time will get yourself revealed as "that guy".
     
  23. _MG_

    _MG_ Watching Folks Swim

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    It depends. I think 50% is a fair number but I wouldn't really want a straight percentage rule on it. A guy would be in an at-bat and think "well he threw 2 offspeed, he HAS to throw a fastball here" and so on. But I agree that the fastball in almost all circumstances should be your most-thrown pitch.
     
  24. RedAL925

    RedAL925 TSL Commissioner

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    The fastball is the most thrown pitch in real life, check the stats. So it should be the most thrown pitch in the game. When I'm pitching, I try to think like the pitcher I'm controlling instead of thinking what pitch will get me a strike...if that makes sense.
     
  25. KnightNoles

    KnightNoles Learn to Compete

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    I will give my view on this soon, and being an ex-pitcher (all my life through college) it is my expertise :D

    but...

    who the fawk throws back to back change-ups? you see it very rarely
     

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