The offseason "get it off your chest" thread

Discussion in 'Locker Room' started by Hellisan, Jul 6, 2011.

  1. Hellisan

    Hellisan Schemin 'em up

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    So there's obvious cheese that gets called out on the spot (or after the game) and then there's the not so obvious. The stuff that you feel people may be doing out of desperation to win... I feel that any time you start doing something that YOU MIGHT KNOW DEEP INSIDE is somewhat questionable just to get a win... You're crossing the line. It might not be blatant. And of the the two issues I have to discuss... one of them I'm sure about and want to get out there and the other I'm wanting feedback from the group on. So obviously these don't have to be blatant things just stuff you want to get out in the open and /or get feedback on.

    We all have our faults in our effort to be "sim"... Some are purposeful and some of them are auto-reactive... Stuff you do accidentally out of desperation... This includes what I think is my #1 fault as a "sim" player and that is sometimes dropping the QB back too far because the fucking blocking sucks so bad and it makes me touchy on the sticks. I watched my recent loss in the championship game and felt I did pretty decent of staying in the pocket... (I took enough sacks lol). But regardless of if it's on purposeful or not it needs to be worked on. Nobody is off limits here but I'd like people to not specifically name names. If you think you might be able to include enough info so they get who they are without embarrassing them... great. My hope is that people that may be doing this in other leagues see it and go "yeah maybe that's not right."

    So here is issue #1. Over the years I've now seen three players do this following thing. It happened to me THIS LAST SEASON in T1 in a game that I won... So hopefully it's obvious that it isn't sour grapes... It has to do with people taking a player and "swiping" him through the box to get the attention of the offensive line then pulling him out. Let me make this clear: If you are trying to time a blitz... Or even fake a blitz and get back to your spot... I have no issue with you. However if you are clearly taking your guy on a jolly Oval-shaped joyride through the box in order to screw up the run-blocking or pass-blocking AI, will you please fucking stop?

    Here are two examples of what I think are o.k......... Followed by the third, which is an example of what I've had done to me by at least three guys, two of which are no longer in T1. (one was in T1 for a VERY short period of time :D )

    Timing or faking a blitz then stepping back into position if mis-timed or due to the fake. To me this is A-OK
    [​IMG]

    Timing (or faking) a blitz through a certain hole and then stepping back into position if mis-timed or due to the fake. Again o.k.
    [​IMG]

    Taking him through in a big arc through the box with no intention of a blitz... Please stop
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Hellisan

    Hellisan Schemin 'em up

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    Here is issue #2 which happens to me a lot... I'm not really sure how I feel about it. I want feedback.

    I get quick snapped a lot. I like to sometimes set up defenses by making say 1-3 assignment changes (the manual kind) and it takes me about 2-3 seconds to do this. Admittedly, my coverages are my ticket to good defense. I don't seem to get pressure on the QB consistently and people know that if I get the defense setup it might be tough sledding. So sometimes I'll get quick snapped. I can't blame people for not wanting to let me get setup. Do you guys think it's o.k. to quick snap somebody once in awhile? If the consensus is yes, I will just continue putting up with it. Again I really can't blame people.... I've been tempted to do it to others at times.
     
  3. 1ke

    1ke D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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    #1 us pure shit. Thats really unacceptable.

    #2 I think is ok. Do you think they are quick snapping just to do it specifically to you? I mean, I see games all the time where teams can go to the line and go on the first sound for example. The fact you want to set up your defense is not a problem for you. And also the fact someone can quick snap to counter it is also not a problem. I personally dont do it cuz I wanna see the defense first. I can see why you would find it annoying, but at the same time dont really think they are cheezin you either.
     
  4. Hellisan

    Hellisan Schemin 'em up

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    Here is #3 and my last one for awhile...

    Taking any position to start the play... Then as soon as the play is snapped, changing to another position closer to the ball.

    The person will tell you if you ask that they are just trying to get in a better position to stop the play. However IMO this is another AI thing. The cpu pays more attention to the user than anybody else. So if you take one guy before the snap then choose another they are redirecting right after the snap and it ruins the blocking a lot of the time.

    IMO people should take a guy... Try to make a play, and if they're out of the play or the ball is thrown downfield, then swap.
     
  5. Hellisan

    Hellisan Schemin 'em up

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    I appreciate the feedback.
     
  6. Wick36

    Wick36 Welcome to the Jungle

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    I'm not sure if I've had #1 happen to me.

    #2 happens a lot to me and I do it a decent amount. It kind of sucks not being able to swap your assignments the way you'd like, but that also means the offense isn't changing anything and they don't get a long look at what you're doing. If they're coming up to the line and snapping the ball as quickly as they can on every play, start user jumping the snaps or figure out their play calling. If they're not changing anything based on defensive alignment, there's probably a pattern to their play calling.
     
  7. Hellisan

    Hellisan Schemin 'em up

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    to be honest, #2 usually happens when I get my assignments set up and then "miss" my MLB coming back, so I end up dropping a DT back in coverage or something on accident. Lame, but if the consensus is that this is o.k., I will be happy just dealing with it, and adding to my repertoire.
     
  8. RadarRider

    RadarRider Montage!

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    #1 sucks, I have never experienced that, I am happy as such.

    #2 depending on the team I play with, my style varies. If I am using ND's spread offense, sorry dude I am playing hurry up and I am looking to get you out of place; It's a factor in the offense. If I am Stanford or another pro style team, then I am going to take my time. I'll actually let you make your adjustments so that I can make mine and the game turns into a real chess match.

    #3 I did not even people did that...
     
  9. Wick36

    Wick36 Welcome to the Jungle

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    What about...

    People who user the safety and creep him up 3-4 yards consistently. They're still behind the linebackers, but they're close enough and fast enough that it's a lot like having an extra defender in the box... and a user can get the guy back fast enough to get back in his zone so his corner doesn't run the risk of getting beat deep still.

    Pressing and blitzing a lot. Granted, it's high risk if your opponent has fast receivers or your defense isn't very good, but it makes it a pain in the ass to run and throw the ball... it also makes play action pretty much impossible. It's even worse if it's an overload because someone usually won't get touched.

    Using motion to determine coverage.

    Swapping to 5 WR a lot on 3rd med/long a lot. It's a good thing to mix in, but it's kind of annoying when someone has ran ace big the last two plays and then switches to 5 WR.

    Just curious what other people think about these. I don't know that I would call someone out on this stuff since it's kind of nit picky.

    I don't think I've noticed a guy switching to mess up my blocking badly, but I don't really have a problem with the guy switching. If I'm usering the backside defensive end, I'm not going to be able to make an offtackle play on the other side of the field, so I'd switch. But, I can't really say anything on this for sure, I guess I haven't seen this abused or never noticed.
     
  10. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    I don't see a problem with this. As an above poster said, if you don't have time to switch to 2-3 different guys and hot route them, then the offense also doesn't have time to hot route his receivers. I haven't done this, but I don't think I've played someone that's constantly changing their coverages on an individual basis instead of going with the original playcall. If I did, I'd likely quick snap them so they can't do that either.

    I'd find this very annoying and I think my OD doesn't allow safeties to be brought down into the box, but if they're circumventing that by bringing them down to the box I'm not sure you could do anything. I've had much, much more success with PA in '12 than '11, so you could probably just burn him a couple of times with a PA streak to get him to quit.
    I see no problem with that at all. I never do it, but I call a lot of unbalanced formations so I can tell anyway.

    I don't have an issue with this either.
     
  11. RadarRider

    RadarRider Montage!

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    The SS lined up 3-4 yards closer, is okay. They actually call that position the monster back, my issue with it is the recovery speed that ALL SS have on deep routes.

    Using motion to determine coverage...w/e people do this a lot, in real life; and you cannot always tell because the defense will just shift players over.

    5 Wide...meh, its their offense, just out with 7 DB's and stop the pass.

    Here is what bothers me: Bootlegging every 3rd down without reading the coverage or rolling to force the man in the flat to move up, opening up space in the defense (it seems that the new D AI has put a stop to that move)
     
  12. Bl0ndeRedHead

    Bl0ndeRedHead Official TSO Pothead

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    I have a thing that has bothered me but is probably my fault anyway. Sometimes when breaking the defensive huddle and switching players, a player I just switched from will stop dead in his tracks (usually a safety or corner) and be standing in the middle of the field 30 yards from the WR he's supposed to be man covering. I will switch back to him immediately and try to get him over to his man, but 90% of the time my opponent (who obviously sees his WR is wide open and I'm trying to get my guy over to him) will snap it and quick throw to the open receiver instead of giving me the common courtesy of lining my CB on his WR
     
  13. Wick36

    Wick36 Welcome to the Jungle

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    If you hit audible and then switch to your original play, the guy will run back over on his own.
     
  14. jkhaalis991

    jkhaalis991 Back in The Deuce...been gone too long.

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    #1: Pure bullshit. Any1 who says that it is fine, I'll refund your membership fee personally & tell you to kick rocks.

    #2: If its done every play I would have problem, but if its once in awhile, its cool.

    #3: 1st I have heard of this. I'm usually play the DLINE & don't switch until the ball is thrown or RB is past me getting to the next level of the defense.
     
  15. RadarRider

    RadarRider Montage!

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    I kinda agree with the PA, the only problem is if they start blitzing...:(

    here is the one I HATE HATE HATE!

    I was asked to join an OD for NCAA 11 by a guy I had played a few ranked games with; He was a legit player so I figured the rest of the league would be the same. First game: I keep noticing the guy is getting really quick interior pressure and I cannot figure out why. He made his defensive align so that he had DB's at the LB and DT positions...I called him out on it and he tried throwing excusses like spaghetti to a wall. Never quit a game/league so fast.
     
  16. Dru50

    Dru50 Still Chicago's #1 son

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    Hellisan - your issue #1 is total velveeta, and if someone was doing that in my league they'd be shown the door. The only reason someone would do that is to f*** with the CPU AI, no different than when you see guys take a DE off the line of scrimmage and then blitz with them. Additionally, the screenshots you show would indicate a separate issue - if you control a guy set to play zone/man and then blitz them, often the CPU blocking AI won't account for you EVER (since it thinks you are in coverage). I've always thought that if you are going to blitz a guy, then hot route him to blitz.

    Your issue #2 I don't see as a problem, since if your opponent is someone who spends time reading the defense pre-snap (as I do) you have plenty of time to make adjustments. If you are playing someone who just runs the play as is, they should have the right to prevent you from making all kinds of 'Peyton Manning' adjustments on defense if they like.

    I've never encountered your 3rd issue before, but I don't think I'd have an issue with it per se.

    Bring up safeties consistently or press blitzing all the time is usually not allowed in the premier leagues, as it falls under 'mixing up your playcalling'. User controlling a safety is fine, but you should really leave him near the area he starts in, for many of the reasons you mentioned.

    I don't have an issue with using motion to determine coverage, so long as you allow the defense time to set. The 5 WR thing isn't really an issue to me either since so many spread teams use 4-5 wide sets all game these days that's it isn't really unsim to do it, unless you are talking about someone audibling constantly to a 5 wide set (which would be a problem to me).
     
  17. Dru50

    Dru50 Still Chicago's #1 son

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    My biggest pet peeve by far is guys who drop their QB back too far, especially from shotgun. A standard 5 step drop should take you 5-8 yards back from the line from under center, and from shotgun you really should not need to drop back much at all (which is why they start 5 yards back and why spread QB's have so many footwork issues moving to the NFL), but I see far too many guys drop back their QB 10-15 yards on every pass which makes a pass rush entirely meaningless. Add in the fact that defender AI never seems to understand how to adjust coverage to compensate for the different trajectory on a QB dropping back that far, and doing this makes pass defense nearly impossible to play.

    My other gripe is guys running counter plays to the strong side of the formation a lot by flipping the play at the line. A counter should generally be done to the weak side to take advantage of someone overplaying off tackle or power-O running plays to the strong side. In 2011, the strong side counter was nearly impossible to stop for less than 4 yards because of the LB's sucking inside right off the snap and getting caught in the wash. I'm hoping that this is addressed in 2012, and it seems to be based on the demo at least.
     
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  18. PAgamer07

    PAgamer07 We're the ship without a storm

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    Agree 100%

    Even the 85' Bears didnt blitz every down..
     
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  19. Nautica

    Nautica #whatisdrugs?

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    THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    There is someone I have played on this site quite a few times and every time they are losing they resort to this. Its very annoying and really pisses me off, and usually resulted in me loosing. The most recent game it started in the early 3rd quarter and continued for about 95% of the rest of the game. There are some situations that are ok to be doing this, as long as it isn't more than 50% of the time, and even at that rate it is questionable.

    I have not said anything about this because usually if you have a problem with someones gameplay when you lose a game its almost always disregarded as just being sour about a loss. I'm glad that I'm not the only one on this site to have brought this up.
     
  20. cnic75

    cnic75 The Legacy

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    Blitzing every play even if it is a different man each time is crap. You need to mix your plays up.
     
  21. Hellisan

    Hellisan Schemin 'em up

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    The screenshot was just a random grab to illustrate the movement of the player... I agree that you shouldn't blitz from a zone assignment.
     
  22. RyanC

    RyanC Walk On

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    Agreed, dropping back into coverage after a few successful blitzes can be absolutely deadly if you are in the head of the QB
     
  23. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

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    Every team in the world running the spread lol
     
  24. Full Moon Fever

    Full Moon Fever Champion of Standards

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    1. That's crap.
    2. I don't really have a problem with it. It's annoying, but it's part of football. It's a tradeoff because the offense doesn't get to hot route or motion either. If somebody is getting real exotic with their defensive assignment changes, I'll quicksnap them to keep them from getting set up. I don't think it's cheese. Some teams run this as their standard offense....just go go go.
    3. Never really noticed it but if it gives an unfair advantage it's crap. I usually play a linebacker and only switch when a player is in position to make a play.

    And I couldn't agree more with the strongside counter thing. That play was unbelievably hard to stop. The whole point of the counter is to "counter" the normal off tackle play. If you're running weakside ISO's, I guess it would be fine. But if every play you run is strong side, nobody should be fooled by a step to the weak side.
     
  25. Koach Vonner

    Koach Vonner Walk On

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    #1 - That's a bunch of Bullshit if someone is doing that. They need to be removed from all leagues.

    #2 - Motioning to see if it's Man or Zone. As a coach in real life we do that. I don't have a problem with that. However, we can distinct our coverages too

    #3 - I have no problem switching formations on 3rd and long or medium. Learn you'd opponents tendencies and stop it.

    My personal pet peeve typical cheese move:
    Rolling the Safety down to LB position and going to work. My little cousin does this in Madden (Troy Palamalu) and it pisses me. It's ok in Cover 4 to play your safeties at 10 yds. But any good secondary coach will tell you read run to pass. And nobody does it every snap.
     

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