For me this was basically just a re-allocation trade. Getting Gonzalez allows me to move Ocampo to 3rd (where he is better defensively) and fills a spot at SS thats traditionally harder to fill with great talent. It also freed up quiet a bit of money that allowed me to do the KC trade. Mora is simply a stop gap in LF for now until I can either get a prospect ready or sign someone in FA. Griffin gives me youth in a bullpen that is aging quickly. If Clay wasnt 32 years old already, then I would agree that I won this trade in a landslide. That being said, he is aging so there is always that reminder there that he could start degressing at any moment (which seems to be the case in SD). Sending Allen for me was more about giving KC a "temporary" replacement for Clay and dumping someone who would be blocked. Finch has potential but has no room to lose any movement which scared the hell out of me. Armstrong is definitely more than a "4th OF". He has great speed, plays great defense and has potential to have a solid bat. His one downside is his lack of "eye" and that he hasnt quite lived up performance wise to his potential ratings in the minors. The biggest hit here for me is giving up Tony Cali. I actually really like Cali as despite having a weak third pitch, his top two are ++ pitches. Coupled with great pitching attributes and personality traits and I think he can be great. He's only a year or so away from maxing out too which would have been perfect timing for me as my rotation is starting to age. Either way, losing Alexander but gaining Gonzalez and some minor pieces as well as freeing up money to sign Clay (who will play 1B and Smith will move to DH) will hopefully help me pick up the offense that has been severely lacking this season.
My trades for Daughtery and Arrington/Brown were money haters. Looks like I won Alexander for Ortiz as well.
Ortiz had a 0.9 WAR year last year, compared to Alexander's 3.6. So far this year they're about even. I'm trading Alexander because he's a leftie who is terrible in Petco (.207 BA at home vs .308 on the road). If you consider what I'm getting in return for Alexander I would say you're wrong again. Regardless though, the Arrington / Brown moves were nicely done.
Well take it for what it is worth, I actually see this as a great deal for both teams. Tampa has the depth to pull off this type of move and not completely tear apart there farm system. For Chicago you lose a stud in Avila, however in return you get a good pitcher in Maehle and some good pieces along with it, the real key aspect is going to be if Maehle has a good career, if he does this is definitely a great trade for both sides. If Avila goes and has a career ender the next few years well many will question it but I like the deal for both sides.
Here's part of the problem why these two trades havent had much discussion. Personally... I dont know any of these players except Avila, Alexander and Clay. I would advise either posting screens of the players or linking their player pages. No one is going to take the time to look each of these players up to see who they are.
Sharkman37 Rays are the winners in my very humble opinion. Avila is a top 10 player, and I don't really like any of the pieces the Cubs got in return. I guess it's just a matter of quantity vs quality, and Roggie, at the time, didn't expect to make a run this year. Had you known you'd be in first now, would you still make that trade?
I would have. My rotation without Maehle would have been awful. My 5th starter spot is a revolving door and now my 4th starter is falling off. I'd end up with someone like Puke as a 5th starter. With a weak bullpen, having 3 under average starters would just be killer. Definitely agree with NeuroticTruth that I would have a few less wins had I not done the trade. Also, Alfredo Lopez has been a solid platoon outfielder for me this year. Obviously no Avila, but he has been respectable.
I disagree personally. Your rotation wasn't NEARLY as bad as you think. The reason Puke is struggling for you is because you are using him in a role that doesn't suit his talents. He's been plagued by injuries, sure, but he isn't a terrible player, though he is on the decline. Looking at the metrics, per my memory anyway, you've improved your rotation by 2 spots in the NL, your bullpen (which wasn't bolstered by this trade AT ALL) is the reason for winning more games. Your hitting is on par with what I would have expected, adding a MONSTER in Avila (a true 5 tool guy) would probably have helped more than adding a player (Maehle) who has a WHIP of > 1.5. Again, just my opinion, but you gave a Top Ten player up for a guy with a lot of stars who has yet to really pitch up to his star rating.
You make the assumption that this was the only way to acquire a 4/5. You could've given up much, much less, and gotten an arm that produced better than Maehle. 6 wins, 4.62 ERA, 1.56 whip, .349 BABIP, 4.08 FIP - very, very underwhelming.
The bullpen actually was bolstered by the trade. Without the trade, both of the pen guys (Jimmy Davis and Tony Rivera) who are actually pitching well would have been in the rotation instead. Right now, one is in the pen instead of the rotation. Also, Maehle grades out as my second best starter on the year when using FIP and WAR instead of just the standard ERA and WHIP (which isn't me trying to say he has been god this year, but is saying how bad the rest of the rotation has been). Maehle has had 3 bad starts this year, 2 of which ballooned his numbers. He's also still improving. He also has a very high BABIP against him right now, which is almost a sure bet to go down, especially with him being a strikeout guy. Puke has been improving as the season goes. He got crushed the first month of the year out of the pen, but he's getting closer to respectable numbers there. But there is no way he would be in the starting rotation for me right now. He's already lost 2 MPH on his fastball this year, along with some stuff. And I'm going purely off of numbers for saying the rotation is not good. Only one of the four full-time starters has a FIP under 4 so far this year. Not really sure how that isn't as bad as I think. I don't expect you to like the trade since I moved a guy you loved. But it isn't like I made a move for the sake of making a move. It got me a pitcher who is already a solid pitcher and will develop into an even better one. It also helped me get a couple of pieces to develop to fill the barren farm system. But, I am glad that you did give your opinion on it. I still think it was a good trade, and if just one of the 3 minor league guys I got out of it turn into MLB players (which Zapata should by next season), it will be a good trade.
I never would have made the trade if I didn't have the depth in starting pitching. I think we both got what we wanted. I don't pretend I know how OOTP works so I appreciate everyone's perspective and opinions.
So I made a last ditch, desperation offer to sawemoff for another bat. My pitching and defense has been superb, but my lineup is sorely lacking. Angels Receive CF Chester Dobson Dodgers Receive SP Eric Boyer CF Armin Schopp MR James Calicu MR Jim Hall (did progress since the move to MR) I'm thinking most will be with the dodgers on this one, but I desperately needed a big bat. I combine Dobson with Jerome Johnston (6 homers his first 11 games), and my horrendous offense gets a real shot in the arm.
If you had offered me Boyer as part of the deal for Avila, you'd have him. I have to side with the Dodgers. Boyer is a monster. Schopp should at least be above replacement level. Calicu is a solid looking reliever.
On paper, I agree he got a better deal. Dobson does, however, have the potential to be the single best hitter in the dugout. Whether he gets close to that or not, who knows. With Chatworth, Langely, and Campbell killing it, Cole and Simmonds on their way, Boyer was expendable. He gives up a lot of home runs, but that's basically it. I'm interested in seeing how he translates, he could definitely be dominant behind Endicott.
schopp is gettin to be an old man, when will he perform? MAC has finally settled down with a nice 2.6 WAR season
Trying to digest what happened in a posted trade during the playoffs..... Raj gets KDP to agree to a trade before the season is even over and posts said trade (illegal, no?). Trade is dependent on contract extension and then Raj sets 2 man rotation for the ALDS??? Subsequently, Gaus goes down for 2-3 months and KDP posts trade is no longer active (which is shouldn't have been due not being during trade window).
