Trades & Trade Committee HaW16

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by akutozo, Aug 12, 2015.

  1. akutozo

    akutozo Baby, I'm a Brown.

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    After speaking with Keller briefly regarding how we handle the trade policies entering HaW16 and how we handle the committee, he suggested I bring it to the public and start an open debate.

    Currently, we're generally assuming that the trade committee will remain the same assuming the previous members wish to continue in their role. Currently, that group is comprised of greatnessdc, Troy J., Coachmedicis, Keller, and myself.

    Currently, we've used this as our guideline:

    Trades
    • How to Submit a Trade to the Trade Committee
    • The New Trade Tier Guideline
    • Trades may be HUM to HUM or HUM to CPU
    • Draft day pick for pick are open/free for all and not subject to committee approval. However this means player trades must not be included on draft day.
    • All Player trades are subject to trade committee approval
    • Age, Salary (w/ years remaining), and overall must be included with each player.
    • We will use a tiered trade limit system to prevent multiple blockbuster trades year after year. This isn't final but these are general guidelines to follow.
      • Tier 1 - Multiple 1st & 2nds or discretion of TC (if its a high #1 for example). 1 every 2 seasons.
      • Tier 2 - 1st or 2nd, again at discretion of TC. 2 per season
      • Tier 3 - 3rd/4th rounders. 2 per season
      • Tier 4 - Unlimited
      • Additionally, you may use a higher tier trade in place of a lower tier trade if you so choose. For example instead of doing a Tier 1, in its place, you could do 3 tier 2's and forgo your Tier 1. The same applies for Tier 3 and using Tier 2's
    All trades will be sent via PM to the trade committee. There is to be no arguing with these guys, it takes time out of their day to judge trades. Treat them with respect. If a trade is approved, post in in the thread for that season in the Team Management Forum.

    Additionally, we've also seen topics like this occur concerning players feeling the TC was inconsistent in their rulings and that precedence should matter when it comes to trade rulings. I'd like to encourage a polite discussion in this thread to get your opinion as members of HaW16 on what you would like to see.


    • Do you want a more detailed record of trades to be kept, both approved and denied?
    • If so, what would you want to see that wasn't already done?
    • What is a reasonable turn around time for a trade to be approved and denied?

    1. Do you think the tier system we have in place needs to be flushed out more?
    2. Do you feel that certain tiers should be allowed more frequently or less frequently?
    3. Are there any groups of players that you feel should be moved to a different tier?
    Please keep the discussion civil. Thanks.
     
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  2. Automatik

    Automatik Walk On

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    tag didnt work for me
     
  3. akutozo

    akutozo Baby, I'm a Brown.

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    Hm. Well, I did copy and paste it. That could have been the issue. I'll delete it and try to retag everyone when I get a chance.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2015
  4. Hurricane GL

    Hurricane GL Walk On

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    I would like to see Tier 2 & 3 limit increased to 3 per season.

    Also, I'd like to see it stated that ______ kind if players can not be traded. Meaning if there is a specific player group that a majority of the TC would deny because they belong to specific player group, then just say it plainly so we KNOW.

    Other than that, I will also volunteer that if any members don't want to continue on TC, I'm available to serve.
     
  5. Hordan54

    Hordan54 Walk On

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    Biggest change I'd like is one tier 1 per season rather than every two.

    Posting denied trades is a good idea for reference.

    Trades that should not be allowed: rookies from the 2015 draft and 2015 FA signings

    Don't really want to be on the TC, but if you every need someone or you guys need a break feel free to tap me.
     
  6. arlennnn

    arlennnn Walk On

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    • Do you want a more detailed record of trades to be kept, both approved and denied?
    No the record keeping was adequate last season. If anything examples of denied trades as we go on could be added.
    • If so, what would you want to see that wasn't already done?
    Trade committee voting independently would IMO create less resentment
    • What is a reasonable turn around time for a trade to be approved and denied?
    within the week (3 days) of submission

    1. Do you think the tier system we have in place needs to be flushed out more?
    I'd like the tier 1 rules to be relaxed to one per season. some people want to trade more than others but there's really only so much trading that can go on per season so i don't see this negatively effecting immersion or anything.
    1. Do you feel that certain tiers should be allowed more frequently or less frequently?
    see above
     
  7. Automatik

    Automatik Walk On

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    For the tier 1, I'd be ok with having people trade a T1 player one year and a first rounder the next. But back to back T1 players is up in the air for me.
     
  8. Freakskull

    Freakskull Lobsters are mermaids to scorpions.

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    Disclaimer: I'm not on the trade committee, so I don't know if this is feasible.

    Do you want a more detailed record of trades to be kept, both approved and denied?
    - Yes, a trade thread like before would be sufficient, if we add disapproved trades and the reasoning.

    What is a reasonable turn around time for a trade to be approved and denied?
    - Great question. I would like to see decisions within 3 days of accepting. Accepting the request should be pretty much instant, If all the required information and justification is presented.
    - Also, I would like to see the denials come with some suggestions on what would be approved, but this should not be required.

    Do you think the tier system we have in place needs to be flushed out more
    - No, I think it works.

    Do you feel that certain tiers should be allowed more frequently or less frequently?
    - I think Tier 1 should be once a season, not once every two.

    Are there any groups of players that you feel should be moved to a different tier?
    - No.
     
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  9. Wyrmreaver

    Wyrmreaver Ready for Madden 15 on Xbox One, lets get it on!

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    I think I should be in charge of all trades. If elected I promise that you can have whatever you want, except Brian, no trades for him, he thinks he's chip kelly, but he's not
     
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  10. Wyrmreaver

    Wyrmreaver Ready for Madden 15 on Xbox One, lets get it on!

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    On a serious note......

    Instead of tiers and all that, the committee should publish a list of franchise players for each team. These players cannot be traded unless you petition the committee with a viable reason, for example, maybe you are the Falcons and want to run the option, moving Matt Ryan may make sense. Each team could have between 0 and 4 franchise players which should include any first round pick for at least their rookie year.

    Beyond that, a simple rule of x number of trades per season (excluding draft day pick trades) should be sufficient.

    It's simple, less shit to track and worry about
     
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  11. Mozaaik

    Mozaaik Walk On

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    Tagging everyone

    AFCE
    Bills - Keller
    Jets - McStrauss
    Dolphins - arlennnn
    Patriots - Jeremy Rasmussen

    AFCN
    Steelers - Freakskull
    Bengals - Hurricane GL
    Browns - akutozo
    Ravens - sir felgar

    AFCS
    Texans - RFF
    Colts - GridIRONguru614
    Jaguars - Wyrmreaver
    Titans - Hordan54

    AFCW
    Broncos - Automatik
    Chiefs - Craig
    Chargers - nicknicknick5
    Raiders - Troy J.

    NFCE
    Giants - Masterfocker
    Cowboys - RaiderRed90
    Eagles - Papa Perry
    Redskins - iBO

    NFCN
    Lions - GDip
    Vikings - BigK44
    Packers - hskr8128
    Bears - Corey C

    NFCS
    Falcons - greatnessdc
    Bucs - Coachmedicis
    Saints - RaunchyTacoBowl
    Panthers - ZCar352

    NFCW
    Rams - RyanRain39
    49ers - DadiBlanki
    Seahawks - Mozaaik
    Cardinals - johngalt10
     
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  12. RaiderRed90

    RaiderRed90 Rage Fiend

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    This pretty much sums up my thoughts
     
  13. Keller

    Keller The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

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    I think the discussion should start with if anyone even wants a committee?

    We could go full retard and just approve everything UNLESS its just something ridiculous and people feel like the commissioner team needs to step in.

    That wouldn't however, as with most changes to relax rules, protect the teams themselves in the INEVITABLE scenario where the original 32 owners become more like 16 original owners by the end of the M16 cycle. I've said it before and I'll continue pounding the drum - many of you don't realize just how much turnover there is in Madden leagues. There is an awful lot. In my mind we must therefore protect the rosters to some degree from the owners lest we have someone, it may even be a veteran of the league, completely blow up a roster only to leave a few weeks later with the team and salary cap in shambles.

    Additionally, in the spirit of realism, there just isn't nearly as many trades as people want to make in the NFL. At least not of the magnitude of the trades we see regularly attempted in Madden leagues. I get it, this isn't real, but we have to draw a line somewhere. Letting everyone trade rookies and completely reshape their rosters in season 1, while fun, isn't something you'll see in the NFL very often. "But OH CHIP KELLY." Oh shove it up your ass. The NFL has been around a lot longer than he has and one case of a guy going crazy with his roster does not justify letting our Madden league go to shit.

    All that said, I am open to hearing ideas and suggestions for how to improve. Wyrm's franchise player idea has SOME merit but its not perfect. No system will be though, including what we currently have. Someone is always going to bitch about a trade getting denied based on xyz.

    Something else to consider with relaxing the rules.... people will have to be more active errr.... take more responsibility around what they are trying to do or what everyone else is doing.. What I mean is, there is additional administrative bullshit with relaxing the rules - participating in trade discussions or on review committees, tracking precedence on approved and denied trades, tracking who has however many trades left.... all that stuff. That takes additional time and not all of it is fun. If we were to relax things I'd be relying on the rest of the league to pickup slack in these types of areas to continue to keep things fair, tracking things for historical purposes properly and so forth. Thats a tall order for such a....... such an interesting group.
     
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  14. RaiderRed90

    RaiderRed90 Rage Fiend

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    I think the trade committee is necessary for the reason of protecting the team should an owner leave. I think it should stick around without a doubt, however I see no shame in relaxing the trade tiers and the trading system as a whole. I like the franchise player idea to protect the teams even further from being blown up.

    So maybe take both wyrms idea and the existing format and find a happy medium between the two?
     
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  15. akutozo

    akutozo Baby, I'm a Brown.

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    My 82 cents.

    I firmly believe a tier 1 trade being allowed once per season would be the strongest candidate to any change. I have strong reasoning for this.

    People invoke the name "Chip Kelly" because he simply the most high profile case of top tier players being moved, but quite honestly Chip Kelly is NOT the only person to make a trade that is jaw dropping and quite honestly he hasn't really made that many.

    Let's consider. Nick Foles for Sam Bradford. In HaW, you could argue it's a tier 1 OR a tier 2. Either way, not THAT crazy when you consider Chip Kelly wanted to gamble on a better QB than Foles could be in his system.

    Lesean McCoy for Kiko Alonso. Definitely tier 1, but how crazy is it? He picked up 2 quality HBs in Free Agency, got rid of a troublemaker with an ego problem and came out with a promising MLB to fix an awful defense.

    These moves made sense, even if they were surprising and while I believe the trade committee is here to ensure teams aren't broken, they shouldn't be getting in the way of the coaches either. If you take the "Franchise Player" route, than you have to consider that Jimmy Graham would have considered a NO Franchise player... Except he's a Seahawk now. Suh would have been a Lions franchise player... and they didn't even resign him. After the Ravens won the Super Bowl, did anyone honestly expect Anquan Boldin to get traded for.. what, a 5th round pick? Or Ngata for a 4th and a 5th? Brandon Marshall for a 5th (basically)?

    The next thing I'd like to point out is if you look at the trade logs from HaW 15, not everyone USED their tier trades. Simply have the ability to do it more doesn't mean that people will. Many people DON'T want to trade their best players, and the ones that do are likely in a situation where they can fix multiple holes or don't plan to resign the player for X reason. The trade council CAN protect a team from doing too much damage, but it shouldn't prevent a team from being built in a coaches vision.

    tl;dr Increase trade frequency of T1, Trade Council should be considering all factors of trade, not just tiers and OVRs. Players are just as expendable in real life as they are on a video game, trade council here to guide teams, not tell them what to do.
     
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  16. Wyrmreaver

    Wyrmreaver Ready for Madden 15 on Xbox One, lets get it on!

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    I agree with most of what you are saying Aku. My suggestion was put forward to A) maintain some level of roster protection, as in, "no, you can't trade Cam Newton" but allow players to give a reasonable argument to have a player removed from the franchise list. And then B) simplify the system so that users and the committee don't have to track which trade was which tier and how many have each coach done and so on. Finally, C) having a couple franchise guys protected still allows a user who's as the desire to make multiple trades to turn his roster over. A great example would be a player who gets a 3-4 team but wants to run a 4-3, he can try and make a number of moves to get the players he needs to run his defense.
     
  17. greatnessdc

    greatnessdc Walk On

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    I'm willing to stay on the committee and I honestly believe we need to maintain one. Allowing people to do whatever they want is too much freedom. People don't know how to handle freedom.
     
  18. akutozo

    akutozo Baby, I'm a Brown.

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    These men would like to have a word with you, great.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Freakskull

    Freakskull Lobsters are mermaids to scorpions.

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    If you take the "Franchise Player" route, than you have to consider that Jimmy Graham would have considered a NO Franchise player... Except he's a Seahawk now. Suh would have been a Lions franchise player... and they didn't even resign him. After the Ravens won the Super Bowl, did anyone honestly expect Anquan Boldin to get traded for.. what, a 5th round pick? Or Ngata for a 4th and a 5th? Brandon Marshall for a 5th (basically)?

    I wanted to believe in the franchise player concept too, but this is too true. BUT! it would be easier to track...
    I'm in analysis paralysis.
     
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  20. akutozo

    akutozo Baby, I'm a Brown.

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    I can get behind either agenda. Personally, I'd love to be less restricted when it comes to moving players but I can't ignore the oversight that a TC provides. I'm just thinking off of the top of my head, but if people like the idea of a franchise player and a trade committee, we could marry the best of both: Oversight and freedom.

    Oversight: A coach should firmly establish, via a thread regarding their team what players are "Franchise Players" in their own team thread. These would be the cornerstone pieces of team, not subject to being moved. Legacy Players would be required to be on this list. Additionally, a restriction a newly drafted player could be enforced. 2 seasons for a 1st round pick, 1 season for all other draft picks. A "Franchise Player" will require TC approval to move.

    Reasons for a "Franchise Player" trade could include:

    • New coach, wishes to establish different Franchise Players
    • Salary Cap casualty. Moving a player to another team due to dispute over contract.
    • Regression. Player may no longer be the cornerstone he was.
    • Replacement: Either by trade or draft, a new player may now take priority and even that players position.
    Freedom: For all other trades, we could relax the trade committee and allow trades to take place without oversight. This does increase the risk of a coach making poor franchise moves, but in reality franchises make this mistake too (See: Herschel Walker, Ricky Williams, RGIII).

    Players would be required to post their own trades in the trade log, no matter how minor or major for the purposes of documentation.


    Again, I'm really just writing as I am going along. Feel free to approve or bash the idea.
     
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  21. GridIRONguru614

    GridIRONguru614 Walk On

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    Ok hitler lol ;)
     
  22. hskr8128

    hskr8128 Walk On

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    The only thing I feel strongly about is that the TC should continue to exist. I can understand the desire for more freedom in trades, and I don't really care if we go that direction. Personally, I never found myself wishing I had trades left or anything like that.
     
  23. RyanRain39

    RyanRain39 Walk On

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    My dealings with the TC have been reasonable in the past.
    • Do you want a more detailed record of trades to be kept, both approved and denied?
    No, I think they were kept just fine in the trade log. If declined, package up a new trade the next week, make sure you and the other user agree, then present that to the TC once again, and hope for a different outcome.
    • What is a reasonable turn around time for a trade to be approved and denied?
    2-3 Days. That way, hopefully no more than 1 full week goes by (depending on when the trade is submitted) while the trade offer is being discussed.

    Do you think the tier system we have in place needs to be flushed out more?
    I would like the more than 1 T1, every 2 seasons, if nothing else, for struggling teams. I remember last cycle, Keller had a solid LB, but he was just above the T1 line, and I had used my T1 the season before.
     
  24. greatnessdc

    greatnessdc Walk On

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    Now that I have more time to write some stuff out I figured I would.

    I think the idea of a T1 every season is interesting. I don't really have a strong feeling either way honestly when it comes to this. I'd be fine if it passes and fine if it doesn't.

    When it comes to trading rookies, I would say 1st and 2nd round rookies shouldn't be traded their rookie seasons but after their first pro year it would be open season. Anything after the 2nd round I would be ok seeing traded in their rookie year.

    There does need to be a limit on the amount of trades still. I like the tiering processes and there being a limit on the amount per tier that you can trade for. I will say that I think any player over 30 regardless of overall should be a T2 obviously when i say regardless of overall i mean the higher end not the lower.

    I think the trade committee should have a separate message to discuss and vote on a trade and the only message the users involved in the trade would receive is an approve or deny. IF someone wants to add what could be added to make the trade more feasible for them then that can be added as well.

    Remember everyone on the trade committee has a different mindset on what is fair and what is not. That is the point of having a committee is to have different opinions. No one should get upset if a trade gets declined because a majority of the committee agrees that the trade isn't fair.
     
  25. hskr8128

    hskr8128 Walk On

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    [QUOTE="greatnessdc, post: 1636508, member:

    I think the trade committee should have a separate message to discuss and vote on a trade and the only message the users involved in the trade would receive is an approve or deny. IF someone wants to add what could be added to make the trade more feasible for them then that can be added as well.
    [/QUOTE]

    I really don't like this idea. I think we need transperancy within a TC or else guys are going to be more upset.

    At least for me personally, I would be more willing to accept a "denial" if I knew the reasoning behind it.
     
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