Transition tag /Tag players

Discussion in 'TMFL' started by dodgecharger, Dec 8, 2009.

  1. dodgecharger

    dodgecharger Guest

    Transition tag /Tag players

    I would just like some opinion about the possability of a transition tag .A tag that can be applied for 1 season and removed after the season.I also would like to get opinions on not being able to untag ANY of your tagged players and releasing them.

    Personally I didnt know that a tagged player couldnt be released at seasons end.I think a transition tag will help many owners. Please I am not tryen to be an ass ,I just want some opinions.
     
  2. HotRod

    HotRod You ain't bout dat life!

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    To me a transition tag wouldn't really make a big difference. Dodge's main complaint is that the talented teams are always going to stay talented because they are always at an advantage in the current system. I'd like to offer my view on what it takes to make the system work for anyone.

    We have 5 tags to use. Each tag will stay on that player for 3 or 4 years depending on the age. The things you should ask yourself from the get go is, will this players presence make a big impact on my success? Could I potentially get a better player in his place that is younger, has more potential, etc. How many players are going to be FA at his position that I can replace him with so I don't have to use that tag? The point of the tags is to allow you to keep those few players that are difference makers for YOU. You can't keep everybody on your team but those guys you tag are supposed to be are irreplaceable. The fact that we have 5 tags to use will make it so that there will end up being decent talent out there in free agency every season. If managed the right way over a couple of seasons the lesser teams gain some talent and it helps even things out a little. The talented teams aren't going to lose a bunch of talent but they will lose some good players from time to time.

    We all have seen the good teams be able to restock even though they had some really talented players that were going to be FAs. You know why that is? They are offered an out when the lesser teams trade a bunch of pieces for that 1 player which in turn they have to tag. For example when a lesser teams trades their 1st round pick and another solid piece for a player who needs a tag they set themselves back. That 1st round pick will be an instant starter most likely who is 21-23 years old with A or B potential and prob won't need a tag until 3-4 seasons at the very least. You also trade another player who may be a solid contributor. In return u may get a really good player but that player will not improve in rating much most likely but in my opinion it's smarter to hold onto an 80+ ovr player and a 1st rounder who may be 79+ ovr and will improve a lot in a couple season than to lose those two and gain a 90 ovr vet player that you have to tag. For those who aren't keeping score that's two players without tags that got traded for a guy that needs to be tagged. That's a problem for some of you right off that bat. Next thing you know when you have to make a decision on who to tag in subsequent seasons you are missing that tag that would have been available. Also don't forget about your pull backs. You may lose 1 player but you then can bring another key guy back. Along with your picks in the FA draft you can replace any pieces that you lost. It's all about filling your needs. If you have a lot of needs I don't recommend trading picks and solid players for that 1 guy. When you are a lesser team unless you are good enough on the sticks to make up for it, it's not worth it to lose pieces like that in the grand scheme of things for what turns out to be a small gain.

    What will a transition tag do? The talented teams have talent, now if we do transition tags, if they are out of tags to use and they have a guy that is pretty good they'd like to keep they now have an extra temporary tag to keep that guy around for another season instead of that guy being available in the FA draft for a lesser team to potentially get. I just think a transition tag doesn't offer much benefit to the league as a whole because of this. That just delays the talent from being distributed to the lesser teams. And given the fact that we have limited seasons to play in the first place why would we want that to happen? Also we had already done an offseason without the transition tags now we are changing it to something else? Just doesn't make sense to me.

    I know this was kinda long but wanted to give my 2 cents.
     
  3. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    I agree with HR.

    I had one of the most talent poor teams in the league last season. Through a good draft, a few late round trades, and a good FA season I have been able to upgrade my talent level to be competitive.

    This year will be quite a test, since I have some hard decisions to make about free agents. But, I think this year is the year where some talent is really redistributed throughout the league. Most people used 2-3 tags last season, so there is bound to be more talent this season. The teams with less talent will be able to grab some of that talent. HR also makes a good point in that trading solid players for a superstar that needs to be tagged and also trading away your draft picks will have a big impact on your competitiveness. I kept my 1st, 2nd and 3rd round draft picks last season mainly because I wasn't sure how good the draft would be. It turned out that I got 3 starters in those spots...I also got two starters in FA. One trade offset starters (new running back, but lost starting guard). So, in one offseason I replaced 5 out of 22 starters, roughly 25%. If you don't value your picks, instead trying to get rich quick, it will be harder to upgrade.

    Shaun
     
  4. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    Yeah, the system works well. If anything, I believe the system hurts the talented teams and benefits the below average teams.

    I'm the Steelers, most talented team in the game. I've spent numerous hours trying to figure out how to keep my team rated so high without getting stripped of everything via free agency. It's nearly impossible to do. It's already forced me to trade stud players like James Harrison because I didn't have a tag for the guy.

    For instance, I've got 5 tags to try and keep the likes of Big Ben, Santonio Holmes, Eric Steinbech, Troy Polamalou, James Harrison, Lamar Woodley, James Farrior, and Ike Taylor. Not to mention other young guys that I can't spare to lose.

    My team is bound to regress because I can't keep them all. I've already had to trade guys I would have rather kept just because I either get something in return for them or lose them to free agency. The people I don't tag are bound to go high in the FA draft as happened last season. By the time I get to my pick late in the round, there's not a ton left.

    On the other hand you have the bad teams. You have 5 tags and don't really have many guys worth tagging (hence the bad teams). Then, you get first dibs in the FA draft and the rookie draft. Just like Shaun said, he's completely revamped his team in one season. And I've played him in consecutive years and he's much better this year. (I still kicked his arse though).

    Bottom line, this system benefits the poor not the rich. Plus, it actually requires you to manage and make decisions instead of just hording talented guys.
     
  5. dodgecharger

    dodgecharger Guest

    the sytem only perpetuates the idea that more talented teams are being hurt .when in reality they are getten the advantage.More talent allows you to trade tagged guys and stack up with young drafted players who are almost as solid at a young age as the older tagged guys you traded. The sytem does not allow for the lesser teams to get better from season to season.The lesser tams will always be chasing positions.

    I dont see why you cant have a transition tag ,a year to year tag and its a tag that can only be apllied to a player for 1 year.If i transition tag Mack Jackson this year ,that means next year I cant transition tag him again. I would either have to leave him exposed in FA or try and trade a tagged player already to make room. Im not asking for a new system ,even though i have my beliefs about it ,im asking for a tweak to the system,this will allow for teams to prepare a year in advance of loosing said player.

    This idea that FA draft makes teams better is a complete farce,i dont have players worth tagging but i can get 3-5 solid players in FA ...yay for me.The problem is teh teams with the dearth of talent are in the same pool and they already have tagged talent.This sytem beneifits the haves not the have nots

    I just think that if i want to release a guy ,I should be able to there fore rendering the tag removed and the transition tags will allow teams an extra season to prepare a position.I know that this will help out the better teams as well but this will do more benefit for the lesser talented teams a whole lot more.
     
  6. Romoisajedi

    Romoisajedi Walk On

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    I do really think we have a fair system, I especially like that if you lose one in FA you can pull another back instantly...

    however I do endorse the idea of a transition tag, also the idea of if you cut a player, you free up one of those tags to use on another...

    in the NFL teams cut people all the time because at one point they were worth their salary but no longer are, teams should be able to move on if they want...
     
  7. Romoisajedi

    Romoisajedi Walk On

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    Dodge I disagree with you on the FA thing though,

    FA in this league does not reward you for finishing well, I was disappointed when I saw the talent I would miss out on getting when I overachieved with my Rams going 10-6,

    because I sorely needed some of the top half of that first round of talent...

    thus, I would vote for a transition tag, as well as the right to cut a tagged player and tag someone else...
    tahnks,
     
  8. Romoisajedi

    Romoisajedi Walk On

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    p.s.

    you could only remove a tag by cutting pre-FA draft, and that previously tagged player would enter that draft for everyone else...

    just my thoughts...
     
  9. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    We don't have a typical free agent system though. So the one year transition tag would be used every year to keep your best player from free agency and then he'd never need a full tag. This would hurt the "have nots" even more. This would allow the talented teams another tag to use and would leave the FA draft with even slimmer pickings. You're complaining about a transition tag for Mack Johnson, talented teams like myself would be able to use the transition tag on someone like Troy Polamalou or Big Ben.

    Plus, since guys are only up for FA depending upon their age, the one transition year tag would only be needed by one player each year. So I'd apply it to my best player during his FA year then take it off when he won't be entering FA any more and put it on my best guy entering FA the next year. I really don't think that's what you want to happen.

    Also, I can try to trade my talented guys to stockpile draft picks and young guys so I don't have to use all my tags, but I can only control my half of the transaction. I can't force someone else to trade with me or give me what I want. True market demand is at work and that creates an even playing field for everyone.
     
  10. HotRod

    HotRod You ain't bout dat life!

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    From what I gather the way the transition tag would work is that you can buy yourself an extra year with the player you tag then he would be in the FA draft the next season. Essentially serving as a franchise tag in real life. My problem with this as stated before is that it doesn't exactly improve the system. You are delaying a talented player from being a free agent. And given the fact that we won't be playing more than 5 season most likely, why would we want to delay good talent from being in the FA pool?
     
  11. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    There is also no trade off. In real life, a franchised player must be paid the average of the top 5 highest paid players at their position, here there is no downside for the team.
     
  12. Romoisajedi

    Romoisajedi Walk On

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    alright,

    so let's settle for a happy medium, and allow people to cut a tagged player to release them from the obligation, they have to immediately transfer the tag to another player on their roster and the player cut goes to the offseason FA draft...
     
  13. Fooath

    Fooath Walk On

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    The problem with that is it allows people to stall the full number of players for another year. A team with 5 tags has zero reason not to immediately tag their top 5 players and make sure they lose no meaningful player this season. This system was set up to have a turnover in players. And it accomplishes that. Poor teams (that do poorly) have an earlier grab at the top free agents. Giving them an upgrade in talent. And when there lower rated players get picked have an immediate pull back.

    Yes they can trade for draft picks and younger talent, but if other teams don't benefit from it, it isn't going to work. Sure the steelers got a 1st for Harrison, but I also looked ahead a year or two to make sure it works out.

    This seems to come up involving teams with a handful or more of players about to be free agents, or poorly managed tags more often than not...
     
  14. dodgecharger

    dodgecharger Guest

    i enjoy all the opinions and again I hope I'm not out of line,i would still like to see a transition tag or the ability to remove 1 tag a season and release that player into the FA draft.What ever is decided upon i will accept,just my 2 cents.Ive done this all the way back to the 2k days on dreamcast ,running play for money 2k/madden leagues via websites and have played with all these types of FA systems and its just a pattern that I have seen many times over,the good teams (talent wise) will ALWAYS have more talent than the lesser teams.Unless a GM butcher's them up. Im glad so many different guys jumped in and had something to say,that tells me guys are paying attention and do care about the status of the league and that speaks volumes about the guys that run it in my book.
     

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