Usering a DE the entire game

Discussion in 'Locker Room' started by MurkYa21, Nov 20, 2009.

  1. MurkYa21

    MurkYa21 Walk On

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2009
    Messages:
    5,429
    Usering a DE the entire game

    How do you guys feel about this?

    I find it annoying, but doesn't anyone have arguments for it?
     
  2. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    Messages:
    7,893
    It's horribly annoying. Plus, since you can't keep your eyes on the guy (you've gotta look downfield to see who's open) you have no way of telling if he is cheesing by looping around the tackle or not.

    Looping around the tackles are way too easy and very cheesey. Plus, even if you keep a RB in to help that doesn't always work because the blocking AI is all jacked up.

    And to make it worse, you can't even counter it by running a draw or sweep out of shotgun to his side because of the uncanny agility of the players. He can loop outside the tackle and still come back inside to tackle the half back before you make him pay for his gamble.
     
  3. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    12,136
    Using the safety is a joke this year, i know exactly where the person will be throwing jump the route press Y and the ball flies right by his face, its like they have no awareness at all. I always played Safety last year now i cant do it anymore
     
  4. MurkYa21

    MurkYa21 Walk On

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2009
    Messages:
    5,429
    I have no problem with it, it's all about timing and a lot of practice. Go into practice ball mode and throw deep ball to yourself and pick them off. Or, if I want a legit pass, I will call cover 2...(call a play for the defense that has the #1 on a verticle) and blitz the corner on the side I am usering the safety.

    ^^with that you can practice your timing and jumping the route.
     
  5. Hova

    Hova Live Action. YiYiYi!

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    12,136
    I jump the route perfectly, ill be standing RIGHT in front of a cut back and it will go through my safetys head

    Now offline its a different story, I get picks all day playin Safety. Online its a combination of the lag that rarely lets you catch it, its really frustrating when i know where a player is going and have him covered and my guy just lunges at air and the ball flies right past him
     
  6. MurkYa21

    MurkYa21 Walk On

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2009
    Messages:
    5,429
    Anyone else have thoughts on this?
     
  7. Papa Perry

    Papa Perry Leeroy Jenkins!!!

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    6,562
    I don't have an argument for it other than I always engage the tackle so that it isn't considered cheese. I do get a lot of sacks, but I have also moved a lot of DT's to DE so they are gonna be stronger than a ordinary DE and shed the block better. Thats's all part of the 3-4 defense though
     
  8. controllerabuser

    controllerabuser Purple People Eaters

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    9,759
    My first thoughts about using the DE all game is a bit cheesy. However, if you are passing all game, and not running the ball often, then I would say it would be fine. Sometimes in this game it is pretty easy to pass. With little to no pass rush without blitzing, do you expect them to sit back in coverage and let you pick them apart?

    I do think that is cheesy to only use the DE all game. I use the DE some plays and then I'll go with the safety. I like to use the middle linebacker as well.
     
  9. ThaEra25

    ThaEra25 Oregon=Longhorn Country

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Messages:
    579
    Its not cheesy for a guy to use the DE all game if he is playing within the standards of our TF rules...He should engage the Tackle or Guard, if the Dline is stunting, and attempt to shed the blocker. I think when you start saying what position a user is allowed to control you are crossing the line and in some ways you are "hand cuffing" that user. What if I said I think controlling the MLB is cheese because you can easily play the run or drop back in coverage being that he is normally only about 5 yds off the line of scrimmage...giving him a great head start at getting in the back field and causing havoc...Im just playing Devil's advocate here.

    This goes back to one point if the guy is a sim player then this should never be an issue, if it is then they dont belong on this site, IMO!
     
  10. Papa Perry

    Papa Perry Leeroy Jenkins!!!

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    6,562
    +1

    Thanks Era I didn't quite know how to say that without sounding like an ass but you put it in great textual format
     
  11. Mogriffjr

    Mogriffjr Walk On

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    5,164
    Featured Threads:
    2
    I don't care for it. I know though when I do face a user who plays DE, I pretty much eliminate playaction passes and limit deep throws sometimes because my tackle simply ain't gonna get to this guy rushing me lol. I'm pretty good in the pocket so I guess my reasoning is it doesn't bother me, I'm moving up and around the pocket anyways to get away from pressure. Plus I can see where he's playing while trying to find a WR downfield.
     
  12. controllerabuser

    controllerabuser Purple People Eaters

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    9,759
    Great words that I have have thought of before!
     
  13. MurkYa21

    MurkYa21 Walk On

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2009
    Messages:
    5,429
    Yeah, good point era. I think if the tackle is being engaged first then its fine! If it is an obviously passing down it may be okay to loop too though.
     
  14. ThaEra25

    ThaEra25 Oregon=Longhorn Country

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Messages:
    579
    I agree with that also...there are certain situations where the DE should be allowed to "speed" rush the edge and that shouldnt be looked at as cheese...It just means the QB is gonna have to slide up in the pocket or to the other side, whatever is needed.
     
  15. bcduggan

    bcduggan Walk On

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,771
    I use DE/DT all game. I hardly call QB contain but if I do I don't control the DE, I use the DT if I am tired of using DE also. Needless to say I never get a great pass rush even in aggressive game plan.
     
  16. BRUCE80

    BRUCE80 Let the dirt just shower over you..

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Messages:
    6,820
    To me its all about how its done. If all you do is loop speed rush around the tackle all game then thats just beating the game and the AI. Its like your playing pacman or something not a human opp.

    There is no way that in real football you can speed rush every play and be effective doing it, however this game it is a force and really limits what the O can be effective doing.

    However if they go inside and rush and go outside some I really have no issue with a guy controlling whatever player they want as long as it isnt taking advantage of the games flaws.

    I am the first to congratulate a dude who has taken the time to get really good at user control, but also the first to never want to play them again if they want to just play to beat the game and not me.
     
  17. bcduggan

    bcduggan Walk On

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,771
    I am terrible at controlling LBs, and DBs.

    Most sacks I get lately are coverage sacks, if I was playing a user, most users would tear me up.
     
  18. shadowofanubis66

    shadowofanubis66 Walk On

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,345
    If i'm playing a guy who loves to always drop back a few yards extra to pass the ball, i'll definitely use the DE and throw in some contains/loop rushes. He's essentially leaving the pocket by going backward thus leaving him vulnerable to this. On the flip side he's gaining an advantage by moving backwards to avoid the rush while he finds time for his 4 receivers to get open. I had a guy try this last week and the loop rushes put a stop to the offense entirely.

    My default is to try and engage the tackle. If i can beat him with a swim move, then i wont have to worry about him and i could just bullrush the rb with little issue.
     
  19. Hellisan

    Hellisan Schemin 'em up

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    10,590
    Good points as everybody else said.

    I don't have a problem with people controlling the D line every play, per se. There is a wrinkle I saw recently that I don't like but the jury is out on whether it matters or not. It was a league game so I'll say no more.

    I think everybody plays where they feel they can be most effective. Within my league we have a couple of players that play safety to a level that could be considered cheese. Thorpe award every year for Mo. Every single year. 150 tackles or what have you. Often lines up like a linebacker... I don't hear anybody saying we should ban them from doing this, even though their impact on the game is not EVEN REMOTELY SIM.

    It's like where do you draw the line....
     
  20. Mogriffjr

    Mogriffjr Walk On

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    5,164
    Featured Threads:
    2
    I dont line up close to the line like I use to...it helped that I had a 96 speed FS though so I was getting to LOS quicker than most...your wrong because the problem lied with the tackles for loss with a FS and even sack numbers. HAving that many tackles shouldn't be an issue, especially if your defense sucks and the FS seemingly is the last line of defense or per-se the Duke game where all my secondary guys had like double digit tackles. Either way I'm always tops in Thorpe because I pick fools like you off when you dare throw my way ;):). BTW, I never had close to 150 tackles, that's the one guy from T3 or T2 I believe.

    I agreed with having the safety so close so I backed him up. I don't even run speed option because of you...what more you want? lol.
     
  21. Hellisan

    Hellisan Schemin 'em up

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    10,590

    Haha well my point wasn't that you're doing anything wrong. Although I appreciate not lining up like a linebacker. My point was just because somebody is dominant at something I can't immediately say they shouldn't be doing it. Cuz who knows, with some guys that's the only thing they do well on D. Not always fair to take it away.

    Sorry about the tackle discrepancy, I know you have far more tackles with the FS than my #1 linebacker has in a given year...
     
  22. Mogriffjr

    Mogriffjr Walk On

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    5,164
    Featured Threads:
    2
    I just want to win fair, i don't want no one to complain about my game...which is why I'm easy to adjust to things...I feel I'm easy to talk to about things like that...I know I do get tons of tackles with my safeties though :)...then again I usually leave my guys out on an island as well...
     
  23. MurkYa21

    MurkYa21 Walk On

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2009
    Messages:
    5,429
    I was just saying...

    Is there a fair way to play with the DE all game?

    I think I got my answer.

    Yes. If you are engaging with the blocker first, or only looping on obviously passing downs or occasionally.

    and No. If you are looping every single play, blowing up playactions and not even really taking into account your opponents play calling.

    IMO, this game is about strategy, how good your team/players are, and stick skills.

    loop rushing with the DE may have a little bit to do with how good your player is (not really, mostly how fast he is), but it certainly has nothing to do with strategy or stick skills.

    Which is why it is irritating to me when I play someone like that in a ranked game, or even here.
     
  24. Blaza

    Blaza In Arsene Wenger I Trust

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,181
    Murk, I get where you are coming from. But again it goes back to apples and oranges. For example I'd say at least 70% of people I play that control MLBs move the LB back 5 or 6 yards to the point where they are almost lined up with the safeties. This ensures that they don't get blocked while also allowing them to race up to make tackles at the LOS.


    Another example--people generally frown upon DEs dropping into coverage (when the play is not designed to) as it confuses the OL. However, how many times do you see a LB take away the entire middle of the field when he is supposed to be blitzing or in the flat? I see it quite often.

    As mentioned in this thread and elsewhere, it really just comes down to the situation. The great thing about this community is almost everyone is open to discussing tactics and trying to play as realistic as possible.
     
  25. skipwondah33

    skipwondah33 Walk On

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    389
    If manually using the DE wasn't overly effective like it is this year, then people wouldn't use it. In the only 3 ranked games I played early this year, every user I played did this. All they would do is come out in 4-4 and play press cover 3 coverage. You either had only 2 seconds to throw or got sacked.

    Even if people aren't looping its still easy to get pressure in a quick time given the super speed and agility of the DE's and the stupidity of the blocking AI.
     

Share This Page