What is the ideal league makeup (skill)

Discussion in 'Locker Room' started by Hellisan, May 25, 2012.

  1. Hellisan

    Hellisan Schemin 'em up

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    I'm speaking solely in terms of skill level and competitiveness... What do you guys think? I think it's unlikely that any league will have 12 guys who could all win a championship at any time. I just don't see leagues like that. That is the ideal, but inevitably, it just doesn't happen.

    What is the ideal league makeup? Do you want a few stick control guys, or ideally would you want a league full of guys who just call plays and let the computer make the catch? Do you want guys who could compete with anybody on the site in every league, or should leagues (ideally) be organized by skill level? Give me any and all thoughts on this issue, I'd love to hear it.

    I like having guys in my league who practice, who work at it. Who even if they don't have a great record against a guy, are still asking around what to do against him, and are game planning.... And can occasionally surprise and get the win.

    I absolutely HATE IT when I hear people say things like "well I just don't even recruit against so and so anymore." Honestly, in that case, figure out why the guy is kicking your head in and do something about it. Or tell the guy to stop cheating. Or get more even teams to start with I suppose... Don't just roll over!

    Or resigning oneself to a loss. Hate that. What's the point of a league then?

    Maybe I'm overcompetitive, I just hate to see the same people not trying hard, or certain guys going to the conference championships, and the same people winning the title, every year. I'm not saying my league is perfect in this regard... Far from it. I'm trying to figure out what's the right balance... How should I organize the league if we have (random example) 4 highly skilled guys (multiple BCS title guys), 4 medium level guys (could rise up and win one), and 4 guys who probably won't win a title. Is that o.k. if the bottom level guys are good sports and want to be in the league, or should leagues be trying to organize more in terms of skill than we currently do?
     
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  2. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    Great conversation point and part of the reason we opened up leagues this year.

    If skill level is the only requirement, then I *personally* want to be in a league where there is parity. That doesn't happen so I put more emphasis on the relationships in my leagues. Virtually every league is divided into 3rd, the top 4, the middle 4 and the bottom 4. If skill level was more objective than I would say organizing leagues that way would be great.

    If I could ever get our rankings user friendly and rewarding to use it would be a great tool for people to make that judgement.
     
  3. Daplaymaker

    Daplaymaker Walk On

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    A little mix of skilled guys and a bunch of guys that are on my skill level (I normally play AA), I can deal with losing I just enjoy being in a group that sticks around and just has fun playing. Nothing bugs me more then someone crying over a Loss. Played 5 seasons in a madden OF on another site this year and never hac a .500 record but enjoyed it because the group was great and just enjoyable.
     
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  4. PAgamer07

    PAgamer07 We're the ship without a storm

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    Man, this is a great thread Hellisan.

    I wish I could have parity but it's so freaking hard. I'd love if anyone could beat anyone on any given Saturday, but it's hard to make that happen. Ideally? That's what I want. If I can't have that? I want guys who will work hard to be able to try to beat their rival the following year, or the year after. It's discouraging for not only me as a commisioner, but for the guy who just can't get over that hump year after year after year. And they know it too, which really sucks. They are beat before they even play the game. A few seasons in they are discouraged with the game and it's not fun for them any more. Especially if their team starts losing prestige and their recruits get worse and worse.

    No it's not all about winning, but it's more fun when you win sometimes. I do get a little disappointed when there are guys who just so totally outclass most, if not all the members in a dynasty and just aren't beatable.

    I'm with Shaun though. I want a league with guys who all get along, talk for hours during an offseason, friends outside of the game and are active and contribute. It has nothing to do with skill in this case, but it makes the league much more enjoyable for all I think.

    I wish there was a way to organize according to skill level, but you'd pretty much have to make it mandatory that all games get recorded and then the hard part... breaking up established leagues and relationships.
     
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  5. Wyrmreaver

    Wyrmreaver Ready for Madden 15 on Xbox One, lets get it on!

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    I think you want to find guys in the same neighborhood in terms of skill. Sure, a handfull of guys might be "better" but hopefully the "lower" guys can occassionally get a win or put a scare in them.

    Another way of looking at it is that you want guys with similar commitment levels, if you have a couple guys who dont practice and are resigned to getting beat while the others are opening "how to beat so and so" threads and playing unranked games with each other to get better then maybe the league isnt a good fit for those guys not trying as hard.

    In After Midnight i felt like we had a nice mix this past season. There were a couple guys who were generally better than others but the guys below were always trying. I often heard stuff like, "I cant wait to run my new offense against you" meaning the lower guys were trying to figure out ways to catch up all year. Thats the kind of group i want, just because i lost the last five doesnt mean im gonna lose this time is my outlook and hopefully that of the other guys i play with.

    While a ranking system would be a great tool it doesnt fill in the whole equation of what makes a great league. Like others said, there are friendships out there as well as questions of availability, sportsmanship, forum content etc. to consider.
     
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  6. BobJr

    BobJr To each their own

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    Great thread man.
     
  7. Iron Mickey

    Iron Mickey I'd take her out for some casadias

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    Making it more than what it is

    You just have to assemble 12 bat shit crazy MF'n gamers that love the game of football and the rest of the make-up will form itself

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Hellisan

    Hellisan Schemin 'em up

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    I think this is probably the best solution, is that as long as the league is getting along, you're golden most of the time. If somebody asked me to leave the league because they felt they couldn't compete I would totally understand, but I find that issue seems to work itself out if the guys in the league know each other and trust each other. That was a bit of an issue in my league earlier in the year, but thanks to the recommendation of David for kakaotalk (chat app on smartphone) we kind of worked through that for the large part. If people know and like each other, they are less likely to either 1) cheese a guy or 2) think the other guy is being cheap.

    Also... when somebody asks me how to beat Mo, Hotrod, or Max, I will type a book. If they ask me how to beat another guy who is presently struggling, I will simply wish them good luck.
     
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  9. Hellisan

    Hellisan Schemin 'em up

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    Thankfully for you, there's exactly 12 people that fit that description and own a PS3.
     
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  10. smlVICTORIES53

    smlVICTORIES53 Walk On

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    Hmmm....a book you say.
     
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  11. Iron Mickey

    Iron Mickey I'd take her out for some casadias

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    Just gotta croot baby!
     
  12. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    He wasn't implying he wanted those guys.

    tumblr_lgvu0bPH0a1qeo0py.gif
     
  13. Iron Mickey

    Iron Mickey I'd take her out for some casadias

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    I know Rufus
     
  14. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    Who is Rufus?
     
  15. Iron Mickey

    Iron Mickey I'd take her out for some casadias

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    You don't know Rufus the intellectual Pony?
     
  16. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    I don't deal with gayness such as THIS.
     
  17. Iron Mickey

    Iron Mickey I'd take her out for some casadias

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    Careful Mister! Remember Ponies can be vile creatures
     
  18. bawvu97

    bawvu97 Let's Goooooo Mountaineers

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    as can asian chicks with wax........

    David
     
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  19. MartyWebb

    MartyWebb C.R.E.A.M.

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    It sucks showing up late to this thread, because a lot that I would've said has already been said.

    I think that without the ranking system/a way to organize leagues by skill level, you'll always have a standout or two or three in the league. My approach is always to know my team, better than my opponent knows his. Know where I can get attacked and survive, and where I'm best at attacking, and stick to my gameplan. I'd like every user game to be a chess match, learn and play at the same time, and try to be the better coach. My ideal league would be one where that is expected of everyone. For people to try, never give up, and have a good time playing one another win or lose. A mixture of styles is great too. Your option guys, your spread guys, your defense specialist guys, etc. etc.

    Just a small piece of what I'd always like to see in an online dynasty. Overall, if I'm in a league I'd like to build relationships where everyone is a good sport, helps one another if necessary with tips or advice, and love trying to be the best team the right way like TSO does it.
     
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  20. CeeGee

    CeeGee Block-O-Nation

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    I agree. There are always going to be guys that are just plain better than others at the games, which is fine. They have big targets on their backs, year in and year out. There's nothing wrong with having a few top dogs for everyone to try and take out.

    Couple things that you need though, in my opinion to run a successful league.

    1. the guys that are in the lower 3rd of the league, that probably wont ever win a BCS Title need to be guys with good attitudes and guy that are going to stick around and contribute to the league. Just because they aren't the best at the game and don't win as much as others doesn't mean that they are not valuable members of the league. imo, its the lower 3rd of the league that determines how strong your league is. If you've got guys that don't win much, and constantly complain about it, thats not good. however, if you've got guys that don't win much, but still play all their games, do their recruting and have an overall good attitude about the game and the league then i think those guys are tremendously valuable in a league.

    2. you can't have the top 3rd guys bitching and throwing fits when they do lose. this doesn't look good on the league, and it honestly makes people nervous to have success against them, in fear of getting aim raged or bitching at in the blast or boards. If your one of the Top 3rd in the league, chances are you know you are. You've still gotta be able to take a loss, like a man, and just tip your cap to your opponent regardless of how "good" you think he is.

    3. everyone, from the top 3, middle and bottom 3, need to understand that when your in a league, with 11 other Human players, your not going to win every single game and every single national championship. if you wanna do that, then you need to play an offline dynasty where you play all CPU games.
     
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  21. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    In my experiences here so far if parity is unavailable, which it likely is, variety wins out. However, what you do with that variety is key. Like has already been stated, leagues fall mostly into 3 tiers. If you spread the top 3 guys out, one in each conference, then the bottom two thirds of the league gets screwed because it's unlikely they'll ever beat that guy and one CC and BCS trophy later the talent gap can get way too big way too fast in this game. However, if you try to setup conferences where the top 3 have to battle it out and keep each other in check, parity becomes slightly more attainable. Also, this way everyone in the league then gets competitive games which truly are the most fun.

    Also, getting a variety of playing styles is great too. When I played in the Deuce last season the variety in the league was one thing I absolutely loved. I had to have a unique game plan for everybody I played. Games with some guys would be all out chess matches like JR, OM, and Mustang. Then playing against Frisk I knew I'd have to do everything in my power to stop the run. All of which made every user game unique and exciting.

    The other thing that's important is the overall attitude of the league. Way too often you get guys who bitch about stuff after they lose. That stuff kills leagues. Yeah, if issues come up they need to be addressed but it's more important to develop relationships with your fellow gamers to where you'll respect your opponent and play the right way.
     
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  22. Kasper

    Kasper The Ghost Himself

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    For me it is essentially about the camaraderie. In Orange Crush, I feel most of our guys are capable of putting together a great season at any point, but you traditionally have seen guys like Philstyle3005 , fuzzyl0gic , and sawemoff usually in the CCG hunt.. the addition of Kapono has added another guy that I foresee as usually finishing 1 or 2 in his division ( LSUTRUTH as well should be a force). I feel I am capable as well, but I would also embrace a middle of the road spot in the league- but would like to thrive on being the team that hands one of those aforementioned guys their one loss of the season; essentially I want to be that team that never makes it to the CCG, but always seems to ruin someones season.

    As I mentioned though, I feel anyone in our league is capable of a conference championship run at any point once they get the guys they want into the program.

    Fuzzy and myself have also been very fortunate in that we have put together a group of guys that I think truly enjoy playing NCAA together, which I think in the end is what it is all about.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2012
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  23. PIG BOMB

    PIG BOMB Walk On

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    has anyone used a handicapped team selection method where coaches that are obviously going to struggle [after playing a season or two] get to select and move to higher rated teams...meanwhile the top rated players stay with lower rated teams and continue to build those programs ???

    if you were playing with a group of guys that a familiar with each other you could start the dynasty this way...

    top 4 players, 2-3 star teams
    mid 4 rated, 3-4 star teams
    bottom 4 rated players, 4-5 star teams
    6 star team left to the CPU to help keep them competitive


    as long as everyone is having fun is all that really matters though whatever the make-up of the league
     
  24. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    Of course, it's why Bondzai was Texas one year and I was Duke.
     
  25. Danthraxxx

    Danthraxxx Walk On

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    Yeah not to beat a dead horse but NCAA 12' had such a slew of problems I think the camaraderie was all that kept me in After Midnight as long as it did , always enjoyed shooting the shit with those guys , and they got to hear my rage filled rants about the CPU too lol. A solid group of guys could probably make tetris league fun
     
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