What "Sim" Means Around Here

Discussion in 'Thread Archive' started by Archie Griffin, Jun 29, 2011.

  1. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    We have a number of new faces, so I thought it would do us some good to express in some detail what that word everyone throws around actually means - at least, what it means here.

    First, know that your commish is a stat-junkie. I watch stats and look for anything out of whack. If numbers are abnormally high or low across the board, I adjust sliders. If they are so for a single player, I "adjust" that player.

    What I want, and what I will get, is a season that looks as much as possible like the real thing. From stats to recruiting to the layout of the top 25 - all should be realistically aligned, and I pay close attention to these things. Here's why:
    1. If #1-12 in the polls are users, guys get bored and quit.
    2. If the top five Heisman candidates are user players, guys get bored and quit.
    3. If the teams and players atop these lists don't change from year to year, guys get bored and quit.
    4. If one coach develops an unstoppable "system" then guys get bored and quit.
    5. Most importantly - If all 12 guys are not equally dedicated to this kind of sim play, it all breaks down, and guys get bored and quit.
    Last year, we did a really good job of keeping things sim. In fact, I think we had seasons that would rank (statistically speaking) as the most sim seasons ever recorded here - though there's no real way to prove that. We had no repeat champions, and I believe everyone lost to the CPU at one point or another. It was challenging, balanced, and really entertaining.

    The biggest danger to sim play is elevated stats and go-to plays. Inevitably, these things will exist in 2012, and we will all use them to some extent. It's overuse that is the problem. You can't throw for 500 yards six times a year because your actual team did it once in 1988. Whatever your system may be, it should reasonably compare to that system in real life. I will try to assist us in this by making a slider set that offers the proper challenge and CPU threat. But out of 12 guys, someone will discover a way to work the system - we all need the discipline not to exercise the exploits.

    If you run away with the Heisman by working the game in an exploitative way, the Heisman then becomes worthless. And the worst of it is - it becomes worthless for everyone. Don't kill the Heisman for everyone just because you really want the trophy. Go win it, but win it right. Same thing goes for conference titles, BCS games, recruits, etc.

    If you exploit, the rest of the league will follow you, for no other reason than we all want to compete and win. One coach can spin the whole thing out of control, and the next thing you know, we're all averaging 55 points a game, which is just silly, and I end up having to clamp down pretty aggressively.

    Long story short - I am a sim junkie the likes of which you have never seen before. I value realism above all other things - including winning. I need 11 guys who can do the same, and if I get it, this will be the best league you have ever played in. That I promise you.

    The floor is now open for discussion. I want us to start on the same page, so I thought this discussion should happen before we ever get the game.

    After all, this is Sim-Nation. The word is right there in the title.
     
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  2. egofailure

    egofailure Sim habits die hard!

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    I think it's always a great idea to generate discussion on simulation play throughout the season. It's important that we all remember why we seek out high-quality sim play/competition, opposed to participating in more "relaxed" leagues. Sim-Nation will only be as strong as its weakest member. The more we all commit to the established principles, the more fullfillment (and recognition) we'll receive for our accomplishments.

    Arch', there really isn't much else to add to your post. You lay it all out beautifully.
     
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  3. carolinaeasy

    carolinaeasy Walk On

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    I also want to weigh in about the"adjust"a player comment. Last year was my first in a ncaa online dynasty, and I did some crazy shit early on. I didn't know any better in some cases, and in others I should have known better but didn't. Arch adjusted me, in fact I got the boot but it was never personal it was about the integrity of the league. Now arch and I have a great relationship and actually have worked together on several occasions to build the league. I said al of that to say this; if you get"adjusted" dont take it personal because it isn't. Learn from it and get better.


    Also I'm typing this from my cell phone and my swype can create some funky words on occasion so bear with me.
     
  4. jca312

    jca312 Walk On

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    While I haven't been a part of this league, I've been a member of TF/TSO for almost 2 years now and have been a member of about a half a dozen leagues. I've found that each league has different interpretations of exactly what "Sim" is, but in general the basic principle is good sportsmanship. I try my best to be extremely Sim, as Ego can atest to, but I've found myself in positions where my opponent has had issues with my gameplay. The best way to handle those things are to pause the game and address them when they happen. This is a very unique community, we should all give eachother the benefit of the doubt, and be mature enough to talk out problems as well as be open to what your opponent is saying. Like Easy said, if you get adjusted, don't take it personally, hear what you are being told and take the time to really think about it.

    Bottom line is if we all respect eachother, these leagues are 2nd to none and we will all have a great experience. I look forward to meeting new gamers and battling it out with you guys on the cyber sidelines. Good luck, July 12th can't get here fast enough.
     
  5. Big D

    Big D Walk On

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    You guys won't have to worry about me competing for anything (Heisman, Conference Titles, BCS appearences, ect) for many seasons at Wazzu. Unlike Madden where I expect to win every game I play (they are all user v. user games in OMFL btw), I don't have to worry about the pressure or winning here. It will be a nice change :)

    I just get to play with my alma mater and build something from literally the ground up. . .and have a user rival at UW. I'm really excited.
     
  6. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    Guys,

    If you look at the numbers, the 71-0 romp over FAU doesn't look as bad as it does at first glance. Lots of the late scoring was defensive, and the offensive stats are reasonable. But, it's still too high a number, and you will see last year's crew running out of bounds or kneeling just to make sure they don't force a conversation like this one. We all know sliders will need tweaking. We all know CPU offense is weak. But I don't want any major awards won in week one, so let's tighten it up out there. I don't want us taking advantage of the early season ease, or else the reaction is likely to be severe and immediate rather than slow and progressive slider changes.

    Remember, I react to what I see on the field. The bigger it gets, the bigger I react. If you don't want an unbeatable Bama, better to soften the blowout in week one. Just restating what I said when I first posted this.

    So, no bashing (because I think none is warranted) but perhaps a week one cupcake kindness memo is in order.
     
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  7. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    Heisman? Yes!
     
  8. soxandgators

    soxandgators The Gator Nation

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    Fluke finish for sure. This game should of been 56-0 with 3 mins left there was a safety and then after punting the first play was a late thrown skinny out that my DB jumped. Only reason i even housed it was due to no one being in front of him. Then the very first play of the next series it happened exactly the same as before even the same player and side of the field. Just a fluke game i played 300 plus games and prolly 75 or so user last season and in all the games i never once had a guy jump the route with 2 mins left. IF he picked it i would just slide. But since he had clear sailing i tried to keep it realistic to real life and walked in.
     
  9. soxandgators

    soxandgators The Gator Nation

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    All American
     
  10. egofailure

    egofailure Sim habits die hard!

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    I've been pushing for Heisman sliders since the very beginning. I think that in this year's game they're a challenging set, but very realistic. I don't practice with anything else because I like the game experience that much. They have to be tweaked slightly (for instance, the interceptions are a bit too high), but overall, I think they're fantastic. With the talented guys we have playing this year, AA sliders will create sim issues for us all year long. As it currently stands, the games are going to be far too easy.
     
  11. Iron Mickey

    Iron Mickey I'd take her out for some casadias

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    Why are you guys playing on All-American with big name schools? Are you guys using CC?

    Heisman is the shiizzznitttt in '12.
     
  12. carolinaeasy

    carolinaeasy Walk On

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    We had them on AA to see how the game played. I think we were going to wait for a tuner set to make a final decision.

    And yes we are using the CC.
     
  13. Iron Mickey

    Iron Mickey I'd take her out for some casadias

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    Just a heads up you are gonna have alot of blowouts with AA setting no matter the tuning. (unless you got some really bad players)
     
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  14. Big D

    Big D Walk On

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    Remember there is a "That Guy with Heart" who took a 1 star program. I'd imagine this will be plenty challenging for me.

    Played a good scrim yesterday against an owner here with a Top 20 team. . .got down 31-7. Never gave up battled back to 31-24 and had a chance to get the ball back again and sent it to OT. . .but couldn't quite complete the comeback.

    If I can just be competitive like that against the top teams with these Cougs I will be MORE than happy!
     
  15. Iron Mickey

    Iron Mickey I'd take her out for some casadias

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    Yeah I remember you now mentioning this in the podcast

    Ask my counterpart BRUCE80 about playing with Washington State with big boy undies on.....

    He's shit the bed a few times to say the least....lmao
     
  16. Brogowicz

    Brogowicz Walk On

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    I have watched a lot of football and have never seen a DB take an knee instead of scoring on a would-be pick-6. I saw Brian Westbrook do it once and maybe one other guy, but football players score touchdowns when touchdowns are there for the taking. I don't think that's the way to control scoring.
     
  17. Brogowicz

    Brogowicz Walk On

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    I totally agree with the end goal, but I'd like something more concrete that guides us to it. I'm not opposed to playing on Heisman, but some of Pac-12 teams might. I think it would help, however, to have a list of things to do and things not to do that should lead us to that. For example, when up by X in the 2nd half:

    To Do:

    • Sub in 2nd string
    • Avoid passing on 1st/2nd down
    • Run the clock in the 4th quarter
    • Take a knee when you can run out the clock
    Not To Do:

    • Throw deep or on 1st/2nd down
    • Go for it on 4th down
    If I get a fumble, a pick or a RB that breaks free, I'm taking it to the house. I don't see how suggesting anything else simulates realistic play.
     
  18. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    We're testing sliders here. We can run up 80 if we want to, I think. Once we get the game where it needs to be, then we can do what we please. But right now, we're just exploiting a weak CPU, and that's why those opportunities are there. You can be as realistic as you want with a realistic opponent, but that's not what we have. I scored 59, and I held up a half dozen times. It could have been 85, but that's not the example I want to set.

    Keep it down. Help me adjust. Do anything else, and I'll drop the hammer. I'm a nice guy and all, but when I hear "I'm gonna do X" and I can imply "I'm gonna do X no matter what you say" then I start to get a little uptight.

    We managed to get through last year not having to have this discussion very much. I'm not sure if week one is the right time to buck the system, at least not so hard.
     
  19. Archie Griffin

    Archie Griffin Walk On

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    Those are relatively level playing fields. This isn't. Once it is, whether or not you run it up will simply be a matter of class and what kind you have. But until we get there, just control the stats ... please.
     
  20. carolinaeasy

    carolinaeasy Walk On

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    We will get this figured out soon enough, no need to worry about it. If a jump to heisman is in order then it is in order, but for now, use common sense and remember that if we are posting ridiculous numbers it will get tough around here.
     
  21. Brogowicz

    Brogowicz Walk On

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    Not trying to imply that I won't follow the rules. I'm trying to (1) share my opinion and (2) seek guidance on the rules. If the rule is that I have to drop to the turf and take a knee after 20 yards when I'm up by X, so be it. If we don't yet have rules, but the guidance is score less than X, I can do that too. Whether we're on AA or Heisman, I'm pretty sure I'm going to put a hurt on the CPU. That's why I like to see more H2H games.

    I know from my time in your chair that authoring the "rules" is no easy task. I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, but I do want to make sure I know how to follow the rules to ensure that my play doesn't upset anyone else.
     
  22. Big D

    Big D Walk On

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    This is kind of a non-sequiter, but. . .

    I have to admit this is totally new territory for me. . .I'm talking about being in a league with a bunch of new guys.

    In the OMFL we have 32 user owners. . .let me repeat that, 32 user owners. The core group have been together for 2 calendar years here on TSO. It's so rare that these issues pop up I forget that these discussions happen.

    NOT trying to say anything bad or good about the OMFL compared to this league, just reflecting that I was really surprised to find this thread this evening. Makes me miss the 'good ole times' in the early days of the OMFL :) Now we just have silly little arguments about sigs and who is the better player and stuff. LOL.

    Anyways, back on topic and to put my two cents in I think that a 71-0 score isn't what Sim-Nation is about. And remember Archie is the commish of this thing. When he lays out the rules pretty clearly, whether we agree with them or not, I think we should follow them. Arguing/Debating on whether or not a 71-0 score is sim and/or whether we should continue to score on INTs and fumbles when we are up this big seems totally out of context. I don't think we should even be discussing these things.

    I know its USER vs CPU. . .however in my mind you should play every game like it is USER vs. USER. . .and if you had a 71-0 score against a USER you would be booted instantly!!!! I don't care if the program is a 1 star or 0 star or -1 star. I have a 1 star program. . .I think its safe to say that if 6 star Florida beat 1 star WSU 71-0 in a user vs. user game the consequences would be severe.

    That's my view anyways.
     
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  23. egofailure

    egofailure Sim habits die hard!

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    We in the PAC-12 chose this course because we enjoy the challenge. Moving up to Heisman would only make the task of building a powerhouse program even more fun and exciting. Don't worry about us trying to hold back the league - trust me, we're game.

    Right now, I'm set to face Oklahoma State, Stanford, Oregon, and USC the next fours weeks. If we stay at AA, I'll most likely sweep these four teams. If we move up like I'd like to, I'd be happy to take one.

    As for you do's and dont's, I think they're good reminders of what we should be doing.
     
  24. DC

    DC Shake n Bake

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    I think sox has already admitted his misgivings. I don't see a point in continuing the discussion.
     
  25. soxandgators

    soxandgators The Gator Nation

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    Its all good someone has to be the target I don't mind....Won't be long before we are playing on heisman
     

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