Why are 3-3-5/4-2-5 base banned in most OD's?

Discussion in 'NCAA Football' started by Daplaymaker, May 10, 2010.

  1. Daplaymaker

    Daplaymaker Walk On

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    Why are 3-3-5/4-2-5 base banned in most OD's?

    Just curious to why most OD's on here have these two base defenses banned from being used as the main D?
     
  2. fordtuff504

    fordtuff504 Walk On

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    im not sure bro, but i'll tell u one thing, i was running the 425 in our od for a while then we came over here to TF (one of the best decisions ever!) we banned it and i switched to a base 34 defense. this was the best decision i have ever made in ncaa 10!!! this defense can be ran beyond perfection if ran with the correct personnel and its like a visa(accepted everywhere lol) dude i wish i woulda been kicked that 425 to the curb for my 34 defense!
     
  3. MorsDraconis

    MorsDraconis Walk On

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    It's banned in most OD's because of the incredible difficulty the defense creates for most offenses because of the CPU's inability to correctly block.

    The 4-2-5 and 3-3-5's only weaknesses are very small windows in the zones in the intermediate sideline areas (which is always VERY difficult to hit because of the inability to place the ball there without the safety over the top just coming down and intercepting it/swatting it away) and then runs straight up the gut.

    You can't run to the outside at all against the defense and you can forget about playaction most of the time because of the nanoblitzes that are VERY easy to setup out of those defenses.

    Those are just some of the more obvious reasons for the banning of the defensive playbooks.
     
  4. controllerabuser

    controllerabuser Purple People Eaters

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    Mors, very good explanation. Couldn't have put it better.
     
  5. Dru50

    Dru50 Still Chicago's #1 son

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    Mors hit it on the head. The issue with both defenses is that the SS's are far more effective vs power running offenses than they should be, as the blocking logic for tackles and TE's often have them completely ignore the SS on either side in favor of them going downfield to block no one.

    You can have success throwing deep or to the flats against these defenses or running up the middle, but trying to run a standard offense can be challenging. You often have to pull about 50% of your normal offensive playbook out in order to effectively move the ball.

    That said, I don't know that most OD's have outlawed the 4-2-5, there are several Xbox OD's that still allow it as a base defense.
     
  6. bcduggan

    bcduggan Walk On

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    This was a non TF dynasty.

    The last guy I played that used a 4 2 5 defense as his base defense never left pass commit. Funny part about it was I ran wild on him all game. I couldn't throw because of pass commit and other cheese he was doing. The reason he gave for using pass commit all game was the rules did not restrict the use of it.

    I was Iowa he was Michigan. He accused me of cheesing because I never left the ACE playbook that Iowa uses. Iowa's playbook has 6-7 variations of ACE in it.
     
  7. MorsDraconis

    MorsDraconis Walk On

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    The exact reason that Pass Commit is also banned in quite a few ODs.

    The reason why you ran wild on him wasn't because of pass commit. It was because he probably wasn't playing as the SS, and you ran right up the middle on him all game.

    Pass commit not stopping the CPU controlled players' inability to stop the run in normal formations (ie 4-3 and 3-4) is the reason why it's banned. That, and by doing it, there are certain situations where the O-line won't even block the LBs (doesn't happen all the time, but it DEFINITELY does happen sometimes).
     
  8. BDSDIGITAL

    BDSDIGITAL One Time for your Mind

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    I have another opinion.

    I agree with Mors about the nanoblitzes you can set up out of the 4-2-5...however I think that most dynasties have banned it for the following reason:

    I don't think there can be any dispute that the base offense in most dynasties are 10 yard and shorter passes, and runs to the outside. I've played several people that never attempt a pass longer than 15 yards, and very rarely run up the middle.

    The 4-2-5 is at it's best against runs to the outside and the short passing game. I think there have just been enough complaints from people that don't want to change their offense to get it banned in some areas. I think it appears to be cheesy to most because of it's success against the standard offensive systems you encounter.


    That being said though, I think you can do some pretty cheesy stuff with it, but then again, you can do some pretty cheesy stuff with any defense. I'm just saying.......

    Disclaimer: I have used the 4-2-5 sparingly in the past and am an advocate for it being able to be used. I currently use the multi defense playbook.
     
  9. drowsike

    drowsike Go DAWGS

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    I feel like 4-2-5 isnt that dominate..like BDS said all u have to do is alter your offense a bit..I mean be different..learn how to use your WHOLE playbook
     
  10. Drifterbub

    Drifterbub Help me hide a body?

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    The problem most people face with being forced to throw it deep is that the SS (who are unrealistically playing so close to the LOS to begin with) can rush the outsides so blazing fast that you are left with little time to hurl it to the WRs who might actually be open.

    The reason I don't allow it to be used in my OD is partly because the logic isn't programed right and partly because it becomes difficult to 'mix-up' the playcalling when a lot of things are innately effective out of the box.
     
  11. bcduggan

    bcduggan Walk On

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    He wasn't playing as the SS, I remember that. I don't remember what position he was using though. I do remember being able to run on all sides of the field though.
     
  12. MorsDraconis

    MorsDraconis Walk On

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    Then, no offense to him (if he posts here) but he sucks at playing then 4-2-5 then...
     
  13. bravejaf

    bravejaf Walk On

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    I had some success with 4-2-5 in previous online dynasties but it wasn't really tied to crazy blitzing packages out of that D. Like BDS said people love to throw over the middle but the 4-2-5 seems to force people to throw outside their comfort zone.

    On the other side of the ball, I have been successful in attacking this defense so it is far from unbeatable. Of course I also only play games in this community, so it is not abused like it would be in a random online match.

    Note: I'm not using 4-2-5 in any leagues for the current season and it is banned in 1 of my 3 dynasties. I also have 0 experience in using 3-3-5 base set since it has been banned since I joined this site.
     
  14. drowsike

    drowsike Go DAWGS

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    well hope this fixed for 11...
     
  15. jello1717

    jello1717 "Those who stay will be champions." -- Bo

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    In the 2 ODs that I've played in this has most definitely not been the case. The people I've played against will throw it short, medium, and long and they'll run it to the outside and up the gut. Some of the biggest rushing games I've given up were to guys who run up the middle.
     
  16. Drifterbub

    Drifterbub Help me hide a body?

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    This is also true of The Deuce
     
  17. hornfaninbama

    hornfaninbama GT: BulgyTexas

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    I hope they fix the problem. I like running the 335, but it can be cheesed really easy. I have tried running the 425, but I don't know enough of it's principles to make it work.

    I'll use the 335 online if I know I am going against a Pryor cheeser, but otherwise I practice what I want to do in my league games.
     
  18. Daplaymaker

    Daplaymaker Walk On

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    thanks fellas. Hopefully they fix it in 11.
     

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