You Be The Judge: Sim or UnSim?

Discussion in 'NCAA Football' started by JerzeyReign, May 31, 2010.

?

Is A Hard Count Sim??

Poll closed May 31, 2011.
  1. Sim

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Not Sim You Should Be Banned!!

    66 vote(s)
    100.0%
  1. JerzeyReign

    JerzeyReign #BeatOhio

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    You Be The Judge: Sim or UnSim?

    Ok, I've done this twice in the past week and got similar responses from both opponents.

    Scenario: Done by a score in the first half. I'm driving inside the opponents territory (inside the 40) and my drive stalls. Now in one game I'm sitting on my opponents 34 yard line. My kicker's range is the 31 yard line or closer. I know this because I've watched a 49 yarder clunck off the bottom post with a 4 mph wind at his back. Now it's fourth and 6 and I decide to try to draw him offside to at least get into FG range (5 yards would put me at the 29 well into range). I line up and immediately I get a PSN message stating "really?". I had no intention of actually running the play but decided to let the clock run out to "stay within TF laws". My thinking was even if it didn't draw the penalty it gives me a lil' more breathing room for a coffin kick. Sounds like a sound coaching move to me. I even purposely let the clock run to 15 seconds before lining up so I wouldn't sit there for 23 seconds trying to get him to draw the penalty.

    My question to the jury: Is hard counting a crime in the video game world?
     
  2. mcyork

    mcyork Walk On

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    If your intent was to draw them offsides then I think this is not sim. It happens in real life yes but in the Video Game world you do not have control of all the line men at the same time and trying to draw them offsides is a random thing that the computer controls. If it is 4th and 1-2 maybe but not 4th and 6.
     
  3. bravejaf

    bravejaf Walk On

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    I don't see a problem with it. Your opponent could have set jump snap to conservative, which almost guarantees the team will not CPU will not jump offsides. Plus this happens all the time in real football and the strategy behind the move is correct. The worst situation would be an offensive player jumping early or a delay of game, each a 5 yard penalty. This would just mean more room for your punter.
     
  4. MaxATX34

    MaxATX34 Texas Football

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    i think as long as you didnt pull them offsides, then try to get the 1st it'd be okay. seems like you have a weak kicker and were taking a risk to get into his range.

    I understand the defense's frustration though. seems like he had you stopped
    maybe you could have paused the game and told him what you were going to try.
     
  5. JerzeyReign

    JerzeyReign #BeatOhio

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    Wouldn't that defeat the purpose? I figured it was a gamble because most of the time your lineman would jump before the defensive player in NCAA '10.
     
  6. BDSDIGITAL

    BDSDIGITAL One Time for your Mind

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    agreed 100%
     
  7. MaxATX34

    MaxATX34 Texas Football

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    Hey i think it is more sim than cheese, and maybe it would defeat the purpose of doing it... but you have to think about what the other guy is seeing. maybe just send a message "im not going for the first". that'd keep him guessing as to what the hell you are doing and hopefully not piss him off too bad.

    and for what its worth I've seen more encroachment/offsides than false starts in this game. maybe we use different sliders though.
     
  8. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    Sim = simulation = simulate football as it happens in real life.

    There is nothing wrong with trying to draw your opponent offsides.
     
  9. Iron Mickey

    Iron Mickey I'd take her out for some casadias

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    I would have went for it if I am on his 34 yard line regardless...That dude can suck it. I would have only punted if I was up on him good, and even then I might still just go for it if it's a 4th & 6. What good is punting from your opponents 34-yardline?
     
  10. bringbackjimmy

    bringbackjimmy WTFWTTD

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    If your constantly trying to get a team to jump all game that is unsim. doing it in a real FB situation is sim...

    so i would say it was a sim move..
     
  11. Basis4aDay56

    Basis4aDay56 Walk On

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    I've got no problems with it. It is a sound coaching move. Either brings you into FG range, or gives you more room. I really can't see any logic as to why it would be un-sim.

    Now, if I was on defense, I would be like "son of a bitch this guy is going for it I hope I can stop him" because it is definitely in reasonable territory to go for it. I would be relieved if your intention was actually to never run the play.
     
  12. onaradio34

    onaradio34 Tryin not to show how little I know bout anything

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    Getting the encroachment call and then going for it on 4th would be lame.

    If you got the call and then kicked the FG, i wouldnt have a problem. Holding an opponent to a FG is still a victory for the defense in my book.
     
  13. Dru50

    Dru50 Still Chicago's #1 son

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    If you are in a league where going for it in that situation wouldn't be allowed I could see your opponent being pissed, cause in his mind you could be cheesing by just not kicking. Personally I see no issue with it but I could see how a misunderstanding could happen.

    This is why I'm a big fan of having both parties in a game on the mic, being able to discuss the stuff as it happens avoids a lot of these isssues.
     
  14. GoGators

    GoGators GT: KSherm

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    I think it's a legit coaching move. With that said, I think you have to limit yourself to say 4 fake snaps. Anything above that is beyond what you see on Saturdays and may trigger flawed CPU logic.

    I'd say if you are in a certain punting situation it's wrong. If it's a gray area where you could possibly go for it, I think it's legit. 4th and less than 3 or 4 on the edge of FG range seems reasonable.
     
  15. runthepound

    runthepound Get on the Bus!

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    i voted sim.

    sometimes it depends on whether or not you use jump the snap or not too. it can go either way though.

    on the other hand, the offense can jump just as easily as the defense.
     
  16. Shino45

    Shino45 Walk On

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    This perfectly summarizes it IMO. The defender should be able to recognize what you are doing and make the adjustment. I see no issue with it at all. I vote Sim.
     
  17. Hellisan

    Hellisan Schemin 'em up

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    I don't really agree with saying something is un-sim because "you don't have control of every player" (I paraphrased)

    Man if you could control every single player, that would be UN sim!

    IMO it's fine... If it worked an inordinate percentage of the time, well THAT is what would make it un-sim to me.

    I can see another side to this however. Since you're saying you're supposed to either kick a FG or punt due to your league rules maybe you shouldn't be farking around.... Just kick the field goal (or punt) as league rules require. To me it's something the commish should rule on.
     
  18. Mogriffjr

    Mogriffjr Walk On

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    lol no problem with this...good stuff jerz.
     
  19. harriscw

    harriscw Walk On

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    From my experience, a cheeser gives themselves away early, and often, and is someone who consistently breaks sim rules. If my opponent had been pushing the boundaries of the rules all half, and then that happened, I might take offense. On the other hand, if a guy has one or two questionable plays, in a game, I give him the benefit of the doubt, and just figure he made a mistake. I don't know your leagues rules, but my opinion is, that lining up on fourth and six in that situation, to go for it or not, is not cheese.
     
  20. mcyork

    mcyork Walk On

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    It is my understanding that unsim is to take advantage of the computer in certain situations. Heli what I meant is that you might have control of only one lineman. That doesn't stop the cpu from jumping off sides with another lineman that you do not control. This is not under the users control therefore I see that as taking advantage of a computer mistake and not a user mistake and that to me is unsim. Not to mention if you are now 4th and 1 why would you stop there most coaches would then go for it in real life so why not go for it in your game.
     
  21. Papa Perry

    Papa Perry Leeroy Jenkins!!!

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    You can keep the line from jumping offside by putting ur d line on conservative. Therefore its not exposing the computer. Therefore it is sim.
     
  22. Colemanchu

    Colemanchu GOAT SPLITTER

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    fake field goal. :mad:
     
  23. BDawg35

    BDawg35 Walk On

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    Bingo, we have a winner!

    The only problem I would have is if it exploits a flaw in the game. If it doesn't, then you're doing what teams do in real life. True, you can't control the reaction of your O-linemen in the video game, but coaches can't necessarily control what some knucklehead O-lineman will do.
     
  24. Hellisan

    Hellisan Schemin 'em up

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    It doesn't matter at all, but again I totally don't agree, I mean if the cpu jumps offside occasionally due to a hard count... that's not sim?

    What about if the cpu throws an INT. That's also a football mistake. Is that not sim?

    I don't get it... but it doesn't really matter.
     
  25. Shaun Mason

    Shaun Mason Somebody you used to know.

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    That logic is flawed.

    You can only control one defender on defense, and your corner gets burned on a go route and I complete a pass over the top to score...that isn't under the user's control, under your logic that is taking advantage of a computer mistake and not a user mistake, therefore it is unsim.

    --

    Bottom line is that it is really an interpretation between you and your opponent. Like someone said before, a cheater shows themselves early and often. In the OD's I am in here, if I were to draw a guy offsides no one would question my intentions. Obviously I know my kicker's range therefore I am putting myself in a good position to either get in range and kick the field goal, or give myself more room on the punt. If I am on the 37, 17 net yards suck on a punt, but if I back myself up and kick it inside the 10 that is smart football.
     

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